ONTD Political

President Obama give his thanks in this emotional speech.

7:41 pm - 11/08/2012
I have a lot of problems with some of his policies (foreign, environmental) but I don't understand how anyone (especially Mitt Romney supporters) actually believes that this man is detached, aloof, and unemotional.

ex_swaggerd 9th-Nov-2012 04:15 am (UTC)
Right? Even if he's not the most amazing president ever (which he kind of is IMO, if not in practice than in principle), he is the most humble and relateable we've had in a very long time. I wish he could stay in office forever.
natyanayaki 9th-Nov-2012 04:18 am (UTC)
I think he's the best candidate we've had in a long time (including Clinton). I've only been alive since right before the first Bush, so I don't have much experience, but I think he's the best either of the major parties have offered in a long time.
shadowwolf1321 9th-Nov-2012 04:18 am (UTC)
My thoughts as well.
hammersxstrings 9th-Nov-2012 05:43 am (UTC)
History will be much more kind to him than the present has been, I'm sure of it. I know it's hyperbolic, but I really do think it'll be the same type of contrast many progressive presidents have been remembered for, like Lincoln or JFK....I just do hope he's a bit more stern with the GOP. Only, slight, complaint.
natyanayaki 9th-Nov-2012 05:45 am (UTC)
Your post reminds me of this bit from TRMS that aired Monday: http://youtu.be/vxWykiczlLg
hammersxstrings 9th-Nov-2012 06:00 am (UTC)
Thanks for the link! I generally stay away from the cable news live, cause of all the extra crap, but I hadn't seen this yet.

On a purely superficial, Rachel is awesome note, she was on Colbert tonight and was amazzzzing
natyanayaki 9th-Nov-2012 06:09 am (UTC)
She was on Colbert?????

I actually didn't see it live because I forget that the TV exists, though I do DVR it for my dad. But that really got me to think, and reminded me that for all the flaws in the Presidency, he did quite a lot and he didn't advertise all that he did.
ecrivais 9th-Nov-2012 06:00 pm (UTC)
Yup, just like people have glossed over the flaws of many of our nation's great leaders, I think Obama will be looked on in a very positive light. Well, barring some terrible national tragedy.
thevelvetsun 9th-Nov-2012 07:10 am (UTC)
Most amazing president ever? I think that's stretching it a bit. *cough*drones*cough*. I'd credit Lincoln or FDR as our greatest president ever.
natyanayaki 9th-Nov-2012 08:00 am (UTC)
FDR and his concentration camps? Really? FDR treated the citizens he's supposed to protect horribly. I hate the drones, but Obama's oath is to the American people...not that I think drones or any killing of civilians is OK. And Lincoln, Lincoln was very sly.

I think all Presidents have their ick-factor tbh.
thevelvetsun 9th-Nov-2012 08:15 am (UTC)
Obama's drones have assassinated American citizens without trial. Also its pretty gross to say other people's children don't matter. Murdering children is ok if they're foreign.
natyanayaki 9th-Nov-2012 08:20 am (UTC)
And that's totally what I said, or not. I already mentioned in my original post that I disagree with his foreign policy. But yeah, the President who sent American citizens to concentration camps is totally one of the two greatest Presidents. I simply pointed out the hypocrisy of your statement.
meran_flash 9th-Nov-2012 08:00 am (UTC)
So like do you not know about the American internment camps or
thevelvetsun 9th-Nov-2012 08:18 am (UTC)
Okay, I take back my comment about fdr. I still think Obama's policy of murdering children, including American children living overseas is wrong.
jadehunter 9th-Nov-2012 08:20 am (UTC)
Re: Lincoln, he's seen as one of the best Presidents now, but a lot of people in those times were unhappy with him, even those in the North, because of the war and all the loss of lives. It was a difficult re-election for him, too.

Who knows what history will say about Obama? I'm not particularly happy with drone strikes or about fracking, but that doesn't take away from his accomplishments, either. There will never be a perfect candidate, and there will never be a perfect President.

(I agree with you, tho, about FDR. He was amazing.)

ETA: (Regarding the economy. Lol. This is what I get for trying to post while doing my nails.)

Edited at 2012-11-09 08:21 am (UTC)
natyanayaki 9th-Nov-2012 08:21 am (UTC)
"but that doesn't take away from his accomplishments, either."


"There will never be a perfect candidate, and there will never be a perfect President."

baked_goldfish 9th-Nov-2012 08:45 am (UTC)
Lincoln viewed black people as a lesser race, and as mentioned FDR had that little thing called the internment of over 100,000 Japanese Americans. When people make "best US president ever" lists, it's relative - every last one of them has done nasty underhanded shit.

Edited at 2012-11-09 08:48 am (UTC)
natyanayaki 9th-Nov-2012 09:17 am (UTC)
I wish we'd just call them concentration camps, it seems that "internment camp" is used simply to make what FDR did seem less gross. And, I can't speak to what every Japanese American feels (I'm not even Japanese American), but some of the Japanese Americans closest to me who were sent to the camps, or had family sent to the camps do get offended that we use internment camps.

Thanks for the link, that's what I was hinting at when I called Lincoln savvy. Some people don't know this, but he'd actually originally freed the slaves in the rebel states while allowing slavery to continue a bit longer in Southern States that remained with the Union (I believe he did so to force the hands of European nations to choose sides, and to encourage slave states not to leave the Union, and b/c I think he didn't have the power to emancipate?). Also, I believe he said at one point something like, he'd abolish or preserve slavery depending on which decision would preserve the Union? It's all very interesting, and the more one read the more one realizes that Lincoln was a really savvy politician, not necessarily the golden politician, the champion of the slaves/former slaves that we'd like to think of him as.

Also, random (just thinking), but I've felt that in general both father and son President Adams' never got enough credit for their anti-slavery sentiment. Abigail Adams (never a President, but supposedly extremely influential) was a major abolitionist, John Adams drafted the Massachusetts Constitution which abolished slavery, and of course with John Quincy Adams there was the United States v Amistad case. Granted those two examples weren't during their Presidencies, but should be discussed (maybe it is discussed in the media, and I just never hear it).
bettalaylow 9th-Nov-2012 02:25 pm (UTC)
Kinda of off topic but I can't wait for Spielberg's Lincoln to come out I think Daniel Day Lewis is going to knock it out of the park.
hammersxstrings 9th-Nov-2012 03:23 pm (UTC)

although I do think they're going to portray him as this big abolitionist, which he really wasn't. maybe they'll prove me wrong, tho
bettalaylow 9th-Nov-2012 02:23 pm (UTC)
I was just going to point this out I regard FDR and Lincoln as one of this country's best Presidents. But let's also not romanticize them they definitely had some very problematic positions.
veracity 9th-Nov-2012 03:38 pm (UTC)
I'm just glad I'm not the only one who recalls these two facts. I can appreciate their presidencies, but I'm not going to call them perfect. I'm pretty sure the concentration camps (because that's what I do call them, and have since I learned about them as a teenager) are forgotten in the bowels of American history since it's not all positive and shiny. I know we never learned about it in American history. I'm not sure about college since I took Post-WWII.

And the racism of Lincoln, if you discuss the topic, you're ruining history or something. Anyone can be less than perfect and it's okay to discuss the truths. Doesn't change everything that happened. Simply fills in some missing blanks and creates a rounder position on what really happened.
blackjedii 9th-Nov-2012 01:23 pm (UTC)
I adore Teddy Roosevelt for his pro-environment / anti-big corporation but dude was racist.

I adore FDR for his socialist policies but dude was racist and wanted to blow the ever-loving scheisse out of Stalin. It creeped Churchill out.

I really like Clinton but we still went to war (So to speak) under him iirc

I really like Lincoln but, iirc, he was personally racist too.

I give a TON of credit for LBJ because personal horndog-ness aside, he basically shoved Civil Rights through whether Congress agreed with it or not. And Vietnam - Vietnam was a huge mistake.

tl;dr, presidents are human and do some underhanded stuff. I think it's a case of doing the stuff that does less harm to citizens in general.
moonshaz 9th-Nov-2012 10:28 pm (UTC)
Good summary.

"I think it's a case of doing the stuff that does less harm to citizens in general."

wrestlingdog 10th-Nov-2012 01:05 pm (UTC)
I like FDR as well, but yeah, he did A LOT of shitty things (Manzanar).
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