ONTD Political

A decisive conclusion is necessary

11:33 am - 11/19/2012
A decisive conclusion is necessary
There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip.

Anyone who thinks Hamas is going to beg for a cease-fire, that Operation Pillar of Defense will draw to a close and quiet will reign in the South because we hit targets in the Gaza Strip, needs to think again.

With the elimination of a murderous terrorist and the destruction of Hamas’s long-range missile stockpile, the operation was off to an auspicious start, but what now? This must not be allowed to end as did Operation Cast Lead: We bomb them, they fire missiles at us, and then a cease-fire, followed by “showers” – namely sporadic missile fire and isolated incidents along the fence. Life under such a rain of death is no life at all, and we cannot allow ourselves to become resigned to it.

A strong opening isn’t enough, you also have to know how to finish – and finish decisively. If it isn’t clear whether the ball crossed the goal-line or not, the goal isn’t decisive. The ball needs to hit the net, visible to all. What does a decisive victory sound like? A Tarzan-like cry that lets the entire jungle know in no uncertain terms just who won, and just who was defeated.

To accomplish this, you need to achieve what the other side can’t bear, can’t live with, and our initial bombing campaign isn’t it.

THE DESIRE to prevent harm to innocent civilians in Gaza will ultimately lead to harming the truly innocent: the residents of southern Israel. The residents of Gaza are not innocent, they elected Hamas. The Gazans aren’t hostages; they chose this freely, and must live with the consequences.

The Gaza Strip functions as a state – it has a government and conducts foreign relations, there are schools, medical facilities, there are armed forces and all the other trappings of statehood. We have no territorial conflict with “Gaza State,” and it is not under Israeli siege – it shares a border with Egypt. Despite this, it fires on our citizens without restraint.

Why do our citizens have to live with rocket fire from Gaza while we fight with our hands tied? Why are the citizens of Gaza immune? If the Syrians were to open fire on our towns, would we not attack Damascus? If the Cubans were to fire at Miami, wouldn’t Havana suffer the consequences? That’s what’s called “deterrence” – if you shoot at me, I’ll shoot at you. There is no justification for the State of Gaza being able to shoot at our towns with impunity. We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.

There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, nothing. Then they’d really call for a ceasefire.

Were this to happen, the images from Gaza might be unpleasant – but victory would be swift, and the lives of our soldiers and civilians spared.

IF THE government isn’t prepared to go all the way on this, it will mean reoccupying the entire Gaza Strip. Not a few neighborhoods in the suburbs, as with Cast Lead, but the entire Strip, like in Defensive Shield, so that rockets can no longer be fired.

There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip. Otherwise there will be no decisive victory. And we’re running out of time – we must achieve victory quickly. The Netanyahu government is on a short international leash. Soon the pressure will start – and a million civilians can’t live under fire for long. This needs to end quickly – with a bang, not a whimper.

--

The writer, whom I currently think is evil, is the son of former PM of Israel Ariel Sharon.

He certainly isn't alone in his thinking; according to a HuffPo article: Israel's Deputy Prime Minister Eli Yishai is reported by The Yeshiva World News to have said, "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages, destroying all the infrastructure including roads and water." Haaretz also reports that Yishai stated, "The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages."

So far, 73 Palestinians and 3 Israelis have died.
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mimblexwimble 19th-Nov-2012 02:58 am (UTC)
Fucking hell.
wingstar102 19th-Nov-2012 03:06 am (UTC)
Fuck this guy. Hamas is the duly elected government of Gaza, but nobody will deal with them because the Israeli government says they're terrorists because Hamas has the audacity to protest Israel breaking the treaty established boundaries. Palestinians have no voice to the international communities and this is the only way they have to call attention to the illegal blockades and encroachment and deaths they are enduring. Hate this shit and every government who backs any option except diplomacy is tacitly agreeing with the disproportionate response that Israel is making.

Edited at 2012-11-19 03:06 am (UTC)
metanoiame 19th-Nov-2012 03:39 am (UTC)
Well, the Israeli government calls Hamas terrorists because they kill Israeli civilians - much like the Israelis kill Palestinian civilians - not just because Hamas "has the audacity to protest." Obviously, Israel has a much wider international backing and uses much more disproportionate force in the war, but it doesn't do any good to whitewash the situation.
bitterzippy 19th-Nov-2012 03:10 am (UTC)
SMH. I just can't.
ms_maree sortave OT but not19th-Nov-2012 03:10 am (UTC)
I'm really interested to see how Egypt handles things if Israel keeps escalating the situation. I'm guessing Morsi is under a lot of pressure to do something.

Edited at 2012-11-19 03:10 am (UTC)
shadwing Re: sortave OT but not19th-Nov-2012 01:52 pm (UTC)
From what I have gathered...Egypt has enough on its plate getting it's own crap in line thanks to the Arab Spring. When that happened, Isteal lost it's only real ally in the Middle East.
natyanayaki 19th-Nov-2012 03:17 am (UTC)
Trying to tell me that https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/295697_467240969984674_476932779_n.jpg wasn't innocent?!?!?!?!?! Really??
natgel 19th-Nov-2012 09:13 pm (UTC)
Don't worry, nobody likes him here all that much either.
metanoiame 19th-Nov-2012 03:29 am (UTC)
I've heard those exact same sentiments repeated by so many acquaintances from Israel. It's awful and terrifying.
ntensity 19th-Nov-2012 03:35 am (UTC)
"THE DESIRE to prevent harm to innocent civilians in Gaza will ultimately lead to harming the truly innocent: the residents of southern Israel. The residents of Gaza are not innocent, they elected Hamas. The Gazans aren’t hostages; they chose this freely, and must live with the consequences."

Wow. This part is too much. The truly innocent? Really?
romp 19th-Nov-2012 05:41 am (UTC)
Yeah, "truly innocent" stood out and I stopped reading there. Sounds like some people are more equal/innocent/important than others.
beetlebums 19th-Nov-2012 03:47 am (UTC)
Can Israel vote these fuckers out?
natyanayaki 19th-Nov-2012 03:51 am (UTC)
I don't think Gilad Sharon hold office (I did a quick google search on him, didn't find anything that indicate that he is), but the Netanyahu's Party Likud, I've heard is the conservative party and does better in elections when Israelis believe there's a threat to their security. If true that gives another side to the recent attacks. Was the Netanyahu regime trying to incite violence/fear in order to get re-election in January?
kagehikario 19th-Nov-2012 04:57 am (UTC)
soleiltropiques 19th-Nov-2012 07:31 pm (UTC)
Love this gif, personally.
wikilobbying 19th-Nov-2012 05:14 am (UTC)
there is so much "ummmm" and "no" and "wow fuck you" to be had here, i can't even. this asshat has some fucking nerve.
nadejda do you think that this is evil as well?19th-Nov-2012 06:04 am (UTC)
\official Palestinian Authority TV broadcasts greetings to Fogel murderers; killer Hakim Awad’s mother calls him ‘a hero.’\
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=255695

PA Mufti: Muslims will kill Jews in name of Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDoV8ZL9Xkc
homasse Re: do you think that this is evil as well?19th-Nov-2012 07:00 am (UTC)
You can stop any time now.
nadejda and what do yu think about this?19th-Nov-2012 06:15 am (UTC)
"After appeal by US Ambassador to UNESCO, UN organization pulls funding from children's magazine that glorified Adolf Hitler....The magazine Zayzafouna, as reported by Palestinian Media Watch, published an article in February 2011 by a 10- year-old Palestinian girl who recounted a dream in which Hitler told her: “Yes. I killed them [the Jews] so you would all know that they are a nation who spreads destruction all over the world.”\
http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=250798
homasse Re: and what do yu think about this?19th-Nov-2012 06:58 am (UTC)
What do I think?

I think: "And this relates HOW?"

Oh, wait! It doesn't.

Sit down.
doverz 19th-Nov-2012 06:31 am (UTC)
So the last Israel/Palestine thread was a major clusterfuck. And I see that it will be starting again.
astridmyrna 19th-Nov-2012 06:36 am (UTC)
All I can say is:
Photobucket
kyra_neko_rei 19th-Nov-2012 06:39 am (UTC)
Life under such a rain of death is no life at all, and we cannot allow ourselves to become resigned to it.

Life under such a rain of death is no life at all, so maybe you should reconsider directing a similar rain of death on other human beings.

THE DESIRE to prevent harm to innocent civilians in Gaza will ultimately lead to harming the truly innocent: the residents of southern Israel. The residents of Gaza are not innocent, they elected Hamas. The Gazans aren’t hostages; they chose this freely, and must live with the consequences.

Children can vote in Gaza? Really?

(PS: I highly doubt that Hamas only considers it acceptable to fire off rockets because they were elected. You just called them terrorists, and you should fucking know that that's not how terrorists work.)

We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. . . . There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, nothing. Then they’d really call for a ceasefire. . . . Were this to happen, the images from Gaza might be unpleasant – but victory would be swift, and the lives of our soldiers and civilians spared.

Oh, sure, "victory" would be swift, at the cost of opening up an abyss of festering resentment, such that the terrorists wouldn't even have to recruit---to say nothing of what those . . . unpleasant images . . . would do to undermine your international support.

There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip. Otherwise there will be no decisive victory.

Fuck your decisive victory. Try going for the goal of peace.
astridmyrna 19th-Nov-2012 06:42 am (UTC)
We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.

What did I just read. This guy is fucking sick to want the deaths of so many people.
violetrose 19th-Nov-2012 06:46 am (UTC)
So, the ultimate solution to the conflict should be genocide?

Oh, okay then.
beetlebums 19th-Nov-2012 07:35 am (UTC)
Not to sound rude or anything but shouldn't Israel know better than to do that with the world history of Jewish misplacing and liquidation?
maynardsong 19th-Nov-2012 07:03 am (UTC)
The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.

Holy shit, he went there.
thenakedcat 19th-Nov-2012 07:22 am (UTC)
Does invoking Allied WW2-ra warcrimes as inspiring ideas count as a Godwin-by-proxy?
gruimed 19th-Nov-2012 03:36 pm (UTC)
So according to you I have to explain to my 8 year old kid that he should get used to sirens and running to shelter in school, his classes and everywhere for the rest of his life?

My answer to you would be - fuck off, you tell your kid THIS!

Ooops, sorry, but you are a kid (as vast majority of this community is), so you would never understand.
homasse 19th-Nov-2012 04:33 pm (UTC)
If you think genocide is the answer, I have nothing to say to you, because you clearly leapt of the deep end LONG ago.

And calling me a kid, lol, ok.
poetic_pixie_13 19th-Nov-2012 05:06 pm (UTC)
What does a decisive victory sound like? A Tarzan-like cry that lets the entire jungle know in no uncertain terms just who won, and just who was defeated.

Calm down, cowboy.

THE DESIRE to prevent harm to innocent civilians in Gaza will ultimately lead to harming the truly innocent: the residents of southern Israel. The residents of Gaza are not innocent, they elected Hamas. The Gazans aren't hostages they chose this freely, and must live with the consequences.

The fucking fuck is this? Did Mitt Romney give a seminar on how to completely disregard all forms of social, cultural, economic, political and historical context and blatantly lie all with a straight face?

The fact that for a lot of people this is an acceptable level of discourse is a huge reason why peace is such a faraway dream. Jesus fucking Christ, calm the fuck down, and take a nap.

Edited at 2012-11-19 05:08 pm (UTC)
ladypolitik 19th-Nov-2012 05:27 pm (UTC)
There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip.


Wow, is the "reoccupy the entire strip" a mainstream perspective in Israel, or is this author guy just a sick freak? Ive never really heard that uttered out of anyone except extremist settlers and creepy American evangelicals.


ETA: Oh, it was written by ARIEL SHARON'S SON LOL; yeah...I have my answer; 'NUFF SAID.

Edited at 2012-11-19 05:28 pm (UTC)
fuck_of_nature Request19th-Nov-2012 08:07 pm (UTC)
Does anyone have any good non-biased or as little biased as possible sources about the history between these two?
brbsb Re: Request19th-Nov-2012 09:23 pm (UTC)
Someone I know posted this: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

It's written by a group of non-Zionist Jewish people, so I wouldn't say it's 100% unbiased, but it's certainly a good source of information.
soleiltropiques 19th-Nov-2012 08:12 pm (UTC)
THE SECOND COMING

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

('The Second Coming', by W. B Yeats. I know this is nothing more than my personal interpretation and is NOT the interpretation held by Yeats scholars, but to me this poem has always spoken so well to the relative disappearance of moderation, which tends to occur during war.)
cozmic_oceanz 20th-Nov-2012 04:24 am (UTC)
I'm so in love with this poem. But it's sad.
natgel 19th-Nov-2012 09:23 pm (UTC)
Just heads up, guys. This guy is a douchebag, and luckily, not one that holds any power. Not that the current douchebags in office are any better, mind you. BUT DO NOTE THAT THIS GUY DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ISRAEL! This article is a disgrace, but I'm sorry to say, it's misleading. There are always assholes like him on ALL SIDES.





apostle_of_eris 19th-Nov-2012 10:46 pm (UTC)
The guy who posted this has already made his passionate bigotry clear in his comments, but the headline is precisely wrong.
I guarantee there will be no decisive conclusion. The vile co-dependency of Hamas and Likud will be preserved, with each providing provocations and excuses for the atrocities of the other.
One of the most valuable questions I know about political news is "Why now?" Why not last month or next week? Given how predictable the Israeli government's responses are, is Hamas trying to make sure they're re-elected, and can keep being the satan necessitating Hamas, with its thugs and goons? I can't be sure the answer is No.
tallycola 19th-Nov-2012 11:26 pm (UTC)
The vile co-dependency of Hamas and Likud will be preserved

Well said.
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