ONTD Political

Third Elmo Accuser Surfaces,

11:18 pm - 11/26/2012
Says Kevin Clash Engaged In “Some Sexual Activity” With Him When He Was 16

Taylor Berman

Poor Elmo: Earlier today, a third man announced a lawsuit against Kevin Clash, accusing the Elmo voice actor of instigating a relationship with the man in 2000, when the alleged victim was just 16. The accuser, who is going by "John Doe" for now, says he met Clash on a gay chat line, where the two talked for several days before Clash invited the teen to his apartment.

The accuser's lawyer, Jeff Herman, says "some sexual activity" occurred, and that the alleged victim met Clash again in 2003 and 2004, eventually figuring out Clash's real identity.

"He saw Elmo dolls, an Emmy award and photographs of Elmo with movie stars," said Herman.

Herman also notes that this accuser started writing a book about the affair in 2009 and that pages from the work-in-progess will read at a press conference Tuesday to announce the lawsuit. wtf is that crap So that's something to look forward to.

This most recent accusation comes six days after Cecil Singleton, who Herman also represents, filed a lawsuit against Clash, and two weeks after Sheldon Stephens brought the initial allegations to light. Clash resigned from Sesame Street shortly after Singleton's allegations, saying he didn't want to create a distraction from the show.

New York Daily News, which is slightly less inflammatory and And then there is Gawker...

Anyone else thinks it's interesting that the last two met him on sex chat lines? If you meet someone on a sex chat line wouldn't you expect them to be over 18? I'm not sure how I feel about this tbh Never mind, that was inappropriate

Sorry about that early clicking there mods!
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chaya 27th-Nov-2012 01:31 pm (UTC)
If you meet someone on a sex chat line wouldn't you expect them to be over 18?

It's an adult's responsibility to make sure they're engaging in consensual sex. That means that the other person is sober, 18 or over, etc.

And in this particular example, idk why you'd assume it was a mistake when this isn't even the only person to come out with a claim against Clash.
usnbfs 27th-Nov-2012 01:50 pm (UTC)
If you meet someone on a sex chat line wouldn't you expect them to be over 18?
No. I'd laugh if it wasn't used as form sort of excuse. The idea that everybody who says they're over the legal limit for who knows what really is, is ridiculous. Who hasn't lied about their age at some point? Whether it's for movies, drinking, smoking or simply access to an online forum about a hobby.
zinnia_rose 27th-Nov-2012 02:20 pm (UTC)
"Poor Elmo"?! I'm supposed to feel sorry for Clash here instead of the boys he assaulted? Yeah, like hell.

The victim-doubting in this case really pisses me off. If these were teenage girls, people (here, at least) would be calling for Clash's head on a stick. It is ALWAYS the responsibility of the adult to make sure his or her sex partner is legal and consenting.
darsynia 28th-Nov-2012 12:14 am (UTC)
Yeah, I was side-eyeing that first line, too. Though in retrospect it could mean 'poor puppet, his rep is getting trashed along with his performer' and that is a tad better perspective. I don't think it's what the author was going for, sadly.
ebay313 27th-Nov-2012 02:41 pm (UTC)
"If you meet someone on a sex chat line wouldn't you expect them to be over 18?"

Not necessarily. And if one is talking with teens, it's the adults responsibility to make sure they are of appropriate age before engaging in sexual activity. People who prey on underage or "barely legal" teens don't fail to ensure that they are of a legal age because doing so is so unreasonable or difficult (because it's neither of those), they don't because they don't actually care because they WANT to target young and inexperienced teens. And this happening over and over again is not any sort of honest mistake- it's a pattern of targeting underage teens.


So sick of all the victim blaming in this community around this.
soba_kasu 29th-Nov-2012 12:09 am (UTC)
this is not assault, it's young gay kids trying to dive into the adult world too quickly because of repressed childhoods. i was a young gay once and i slept with guys too early. was it solely that guys fault? no. i was an irresponsible slut. should I sue those guys? no. and neither should this guy. seriously, maybe these kids shouldnt have been irresponsible when they were younger just like me.
baked_goldfish 27th-Nov-2012 02:45 pm (UTC)
Anyone else thinks it's interesting that the last two met him on sex chat lines?

Anyone else think it's interesting how fucking quick people in this comm are to try and come up with half-ass defenses for this dude just because he's Elmo?

If you meet someone on a sex chat line wouldn't you expect them to be over 18?

You know what, I'm sure there are plenty of people here who were "18" online when they were 14, 15, or 16. If I'm in a bar, I'm more sure that the person I'm talking to is over 18 (though never entirely sure unless they really look older), but online? No fucking way, for all I know you're 12.

Edited at 2012-11-27 02:51 pm (UTC)
pleasure_past 27th-Nov-2012 02:58 pm (UTC)
Anyone else think it's interesting how fucking quick people in this comm are to try and come up with half-ass defenses for this dude just because he's Elmo?

SERIOUSLY. Why the fuck is it so fucking hard to understand that ~*~Elmo~*~ is a rapist who raped people and there are no excuses or mitigating circumstances in the universe that will make that okay?
kynical 27th-Nov-2012 02:50 pm (UTC)
I'm going to quote Dr. Drew here in reply to a lady blaming the boys on his show last night, "Big people take care of little people." Victims of sexual abuse have no blame in this.

They are victims and this is victim-blaming...just to clear up what should be a pretty cut-and-dried issue. What is really being said here is, "They enticed Clash, it is their responsibility not to be on an adult chatline (if they, indeed actually were), they should've known what the consequences should be...they deserved it."

This article is beyond ridiculous and vile.
evewithanapple 27th-Nov-2012 02:51 pm (UTC)
Anyone else thinks it's interesting that the last two met him on sex chat lines? If you meet someone on a sex chat line wouldn't you expect them to be over 18?

Let's just not.
soba_kasu 29th-Nov-2012 12:12 am (UTC)
maybe people under 18 shouldn't be in a sex chat. i speak from personal experience. if you try to dive into that world when youre underage (much like i did) you have to understand what youre getting into. I wish I didnt start having sex so young but i think it was my own irresponsibility I wouldnt sue any guy i slept with and this guy shouldnt be sued either. he didnt kidnap these kids, they met him on a sex chat and went to his house with the intention of having sex
girly123 27th-Nov-2012 02:52 pm (UTC)
In b4 "BUT WE DON'T KNOW THE WHOLE STORY/ONE PERSON RECANTED SO THEY'RE ALL LYING/STOP TRYING TO CIRCUMVENT THE ENTIRE, TOTALLY FLAWLESS JUSTICE SYSTEM BY FORMING YOUR OWN OPINIONS/etc."
kynical 27th-Nov-2012 02:54 pm (UTC)
BUT THEY JUST WANT MONEY!!!!!!!
kynical 27th-Nov-2012 02:53 pm (UTC)
Let me tell you how to feel--appalled, horrified, and angry that an adult in a position of power would victimize underage teen boys. See, pretty easy what you should be feeling.
soba_kasu 29th-Nov-2012 12:14 am (UTC)
or maybe those 16 year olds shouldnt have been in a sex chat line and gone to an adult mans house with the intention of having sex. nothing was coerced, nothing wasnt mutual, but now that they know hes famous they want money.
pleasure_past 27th-Nov-2012 02:53 pm (UTC)
Anyone else thinks it's interesting that the last two met him on sex chat lines? If you meet someone on a sex chat line wouldn't you expect them to be over 18? I'm not sure how I feel about this tbh

Go fuck yourself.
girly123 27th-Nov-2012 02:53 pm (UTC)
Anyone else thinks it's interesting that the last two met him on sex chat lines? If you meet someone on a sex chat line wouldn't you expect them to be over 18? I'm not sure how I feel about this tbh

Oh lol I was too late, apparently.
baked_goldfish 27th-Nov-2012 03:03 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I'm not sure there'll ever be a post about this here that's not a mess.
angelofdeath275 27th-Nov-2012 03:01 pm (UTC)
come on assholes, you know wanna commen-

oh wait the OP has shown they are
spyral_path 27th-Nov-2012 03:08 pm (UTC)
I'd assume everyone on an internet sex chat line is under age or an under cover police officer because I'm just that cynical.
aviv 27th-Nov-2012 05:36 pm (UTC)
yeah, me too.
(Especially considering that when I was like 13 I liked to troll the chats and in the end reveal "I'M 13! LOL LOL!")
the_physicist 27th-Nov-2012 03:12 pm (UTC)
There is a lot of pressure in society to tell the victims to take responsibility for their actions - someone once told me, in all sincerity, that the victim is always to blame. In a sense, it's even harder when you have been a victim not to believe that, because doing so gives sense of security. I know it gave me a lot of security to think that I had the power to do something against becoming a victim again. In a situation like this the press will spin an article in such a way to highlight the plight of the accused. "Poor Elmo" indeed. And it stings every time to read an article like that because a small voice in my head will always try and push me to go with that narrative, that maybe the accuser here shouldn't have done XYZ... and really, for 'accuser', substitute in 'me'.

I think your line about the sex chat seems to indicate that you're going with the victim blaming narrative the media is spinning, but the word torn also stands out to me. -_- ...I've seen you around plenty of comms to know you aren't a horrible person. I hope you can see through the bullshit.
terra_tenshi 28th-Nov-2012 04:47 am (UTC)
I've also read some claims that we tend to victim blame as a society because it allows us to preserve the idea that the world is inherently fair or just. Bad things happened to this person because they did something to deserve/cause it to happen. If I don't do those things then that same thing won't happen to me.
kagehikario 27th-Nov-2012 03:13 pm (UTC)
Ugh, this all feels skeevy.

I do think these boys were old enough to consent, honestly. At 16, you have some agency over your body and choices. And you arn't likely ignorant of what you are doing.

However, Clash is showing a clear predatory pattern, and 'consentual' does not nessicarily mean positive, healthy, or ok. These were obviously not exchanges between equals.

This makes me reflect on my own encounters with an older man at 17- I didn't feel abused, I made choices, but I also didn't feel *good* about it. It wasn't a positive sexual experience.

At least he dosn't seem to be using his Elmo status for grooming; it seems he never brought it up.

The sketchiest google search I've made this year informs me that the age of consent in New York is 17 for any gender or orientation, so that's also a thing in this...
kagehikario 27th-Nov-2012 03:21 pm (UTC)
Ugh, ok, rereading that I sound apologist-y. The point I WANT to make is these teens are old enough to be exploring their sexuality, but Clash seems to have taken advantage of that for his own satisfaction to the detriment of his victims.
poetic_pixie_13 27th-Nov-2012 03:22 pm (UTC)
I will fucking cut anyone who wants to frame this as anything but Clash being a predator, I swear to god.
thecityofdis 27th-Nov-2012 03:25 pm (UTC)
I'M JUST SAYING IT'S ~SUSPICIOUS~

WHY ARE YOU SO SENSITIVE
ultraelectric 27th-Nov-2012 03:33 pm (UTC)
This whole thing is just horrifying.
astridmyrna 27th-Nov-2012 04:05 pm (UTC)
How many boys did this guy go after?!
jettakd 27th-Nov-2012 05:25 pm (UTC)
To be depressingly honest, probably more than we will ever know. That's usually the way these cases go, tragically :(
wikilobbying 27th-Nov-2012 04:41 pm (UTC)
re: expecting people in a sex chat thing online to be 18+

this is the internet, yes? there is no shortage of teenagers and kids using it, including to explore porn and sex chat rooms. shit, if i were using sex chats online, i'd be wary of anyone claiming to be 18 because of the likelihood they'd be younger than that. and the gross thing is, a lot of predators do know this and prowl those kinds of chats for that very reason.
angelofdeath275 27th-Nov-2012 05:16 pm (UTC)
why are you bringing common sense into this
sephirajo 27th-Nov-2012 05:12 pm (UTC)
I like how the victim blaming started with the OP. -___- Crossed out or not the "lol, he thought they were 18 amirite?" attitude has GOT to go. For those of us of a certain age, we spent our teenage years on the internet telling people we were 18 because we were young, dumb and it was exciting. If you're an adult, talking with an 18 year old it's YOUR FUCKING RESPONSIBILITY to make sure they actually are 18 before you do anything with them beyond just normal "so how are you today" conversation. JFC. This isn't rocket science.
aviv 27th-Nov-2012 05:41 pm (UTC)
yes to all this
jettakd 27th-Nov-2012 05:26 pm (UTC)
You know, it is okay to both be upset about a beloved person from your childhood being accused of this, while also realizing what he did was inexcusable, right? I'm upset about it. I don't want to believe that he--or anyone for that matter--could do this.

But he did. And the victims always take precedence over your feelings of nostalgia. Period.
ahria 27th-Nov-2012 06:38 pm (UTC)
I'm with you here. I think I'd be less bummed if they stopped saying "Elmo" all the time and just said Kevin Clash. Still sad, but idk, they can replace him. Big Bird has an understudy and they're finding a replacement for Count von count (at least, I read that somewhere).
effervescent 27th-Nov-2012 05:40 pm (UTC)
With the first one, I hoped that it was true, that it had been consensual and only when he was of age.

But now, with three people coming forward? It's obvious that this guy had a pattern and he abused and took advantage of teenagers.

I don't care how ~skeevy~ it looks. Tbh I have a big problem with the fact that sexual abuse victims are expected by society to not want money, just the 'satisfaction' of having their day in court or whatever. The common threads over at the mothership and on other pages is 'they just want money', as though that part means it can't be legit. We don't say anything when the families of murder victims sue, or when people sue restaurants, etc - so why are victims of rape and abuse different, expected to somehow be 'pure' and above wanting compensation? That's an issue that's been bothering me for awhile, I just only put my finger on it with this particular scandal.

Edited at 2012-11-27 05:41 pm (UTC)
little_rachael 27th-Nov-2012 05:57 pm (UTC)
This! Going to court can be extremely expensive. And honestly, even if the victims wanted to use the money on other things, so the fuck what? They deserve to be compensated, even if no amount of money can truly make up for what the predator did.
tallycola 27th-Nov-2012 06:20 pm (UTC)
I think it's silly to assume ANYONE talking about sex online is an adult.

Consensual or not, and regardless of who initiated, Clash may have had sex with more than one 16 year old boy. He admitted to having a relationship with a boy he met when the boy was 16 and when he, Clash, was in his 40s. As Elmo, he has an incredible amount of influence over these young people. And I don't think it's reaching to say that if he found kids on sex lines and chat rooms, those kids were looking for adult validation in a probably unhealthy way. It's up to the adult, Clash, to prevent hurting them.

In the very, very best light, what Clash allegedly did (/admitted doing with the first accuser) was deeply immoral and unethical. At worst, it's straight up child molesting. People need to stop tripping over themselves to defend him. People in power use their power to abuse all the time, being a famous puppeteer isn't an immunity against that.
suwiel 27th-Nov-2012 06:20 pm (UTC)
Whatever. Clearly Clash preferred younger men, which isn't ok. And clearly all these males waited to come forward 'til after he settled a similar suit for no reason other than it was "just that time to come forward". Right...
alicedear 27th-Nov-2012 09:10 pm (UTC)
Several people in this post have noted that multiple accusations have given verification to Kevin Clash's predatory behavior. It's hardly ridiculous for them to come out at the same time, whether looking to back up a fellow victim, have their own story believed, or even to get recompense from an attacker. Which they deserve to be able to do.
bluebombardier 27th-Nov-2012 06:44 pm (UTC)
Are you for real, Kevin Clash.

I admit to disbelief when the news first hit, and in trying to process it I originally went down the victim-blaming path, because ~*ELMO IS SACRED*~ and ~*CHILDHOOD FEELS*~ but I recognized that line of thinking for what it was: the first of the five stages of grief, because learning that Elmo was created and voiced by a man who turned out to be a pederast was a significant blow to my faith in humanity, and shit, I couldn't take it, so denial it was. I get that you want to ~*keep believing*~. I was right there with you.

But you have to move on, people. All this happened. Kevin Clash hurt those kids, and yes, they were kids, because I remember being 16 and I had no idea who or what I was. Sixteen is kind of stupid. Sixteen is excusable and understandable and confused. Sixteen is susceptible. Thirty-six is a grown-ass man who should know better. Thirty-six is a father. Thirty-six is old enough to know where the lines are and why you shouldn't fucking cross them, because that is someone's kid you are messing with. They don't even have a fucking driver's license yet. They're still in high school and thinking about prom and hoping there isn't a pop quiz on Thursday. They likely grew up watching your goddamn show.

That's the kicker here. That a man who worked with children on a daily basis would do something like this to multiple teenage boys who were at a point in their lives when they were just getting to know themselves, and were therefore easy prey for someone who knew the minds of children so well. Kevin Clash is a man who took advantage of these teens. Kevin Clash is a predator. Kevin Clash needs to do time for what he did. I do not feel sorry for Kevin Clash. You shouldn't either.
lady_borg 27th-Nov-2012 09:56 pm (UTC)
I agree with your first statement. In fact your whole comment is perfect. I can somewhat understand the denial of not wanting to believe all of this because of Elmo. I am pregnant and I am constantly in the kids sections of stores now and I see Elmo everywhere, My brother used to love elmo and now all I think about when I see him is this BS.

People have to stop thinking he is innocent just because he is Elmo and realise that he was not the man we thought he was. Personally I cannot wait until I can separate the two and we can enjoy Elmo again and this Arse is forgotten.

Edited at 2012-11-27 09:57 pm (UTC)
alryssa 27th-Nov-2012 07:00 pm (UTC)
pages from the work-in-progess will read at a press conference Tuesday to announce the lawsuit. wtf is that crap

the fuck is that comment OP
terra_tenshi 28th-Nov-2012 04:38 am (UTC)
If it's an OP comment maybe it's about that fact that it seems weird and somewhat creepily voyeuristic to read/promote your book while at a press conference stating your intention to sue someone?
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