ONTD Political

Gun Group Offers Training for Utah Teachers

4:48 pm - 12/31/2012


Jessica Fiveash sees nothing wrong with arming teachers. She's one herself, and learned Thursday how to safely use her 9 mm Ruger with a laser sight.

"If we have the ability to stop something, we should do it," said the elementary school teacher, who along with nearly 200 other teachers in Utah took six hours of free gun training offered by the state's leading gun lobby.

It is among the latest efforts to arm or train teachers to confront assailants
after a gunman killed his mother and then went on a rampage through Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., killing 20 children and six adults before killing himself.

In Ohio, a firearms group said it was launching a test program in tactical firearms training for 24 teachers. In Arizona, the attorney general is proposing a change to state law that would allow an educator in each school to carry a gun.

The moves to train teachers come after the National Rifle Association proposed placing an armed officer at each of the nation's schools, though some schools already have police officers. Parents and educators have questioned how safe the proposal would keep kids and whether it would be economically feasible.

Some educators say it is dangerous to allow guns on campus. Among the potential dangers they point to are teachers being overpowered for their weapons or students getting them and accidentally or purposely shooting classmates.

"It's a terrible idea," said Carol Lear, a chief lawyer for the Utah Office of Education. "It's a horrible, terrible, no-good, rotten idea."

Kristen Rand, the legislative director for the Violence Policy Center, a gun control advocacy organization, said to believe that a "teacher would be successful in stopping someone who has made the decision to engage in a shootout is just not rationale."

"No teacher is ever going to be as effective as a trained law enforcement officer," Rand said. Even trained police officers don't always hit their targets, and arming teachers could put innocent students at risk of crossfire, she said.

Gun-rights advocates say teachers can act more quickly than law enforcement in the critical first few minutes to protect children from the kind of deadly shooting that took place in Connecticut. They emphasized the importance of reacting appropriately under pressure.

"We're not suggesting that teachers roam the halls" looking for an armed intruder, said Clark Aposhian, chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council, the state's biggest gun lobby. "They should lock down the classroom. But a gun is one more option if the shooter" breaks into a classroom.

The group waived its $50 fee for the training. Instruction featured plastic guns and emphasized that people facing deadly threats should announce or show their gun and take cover before trying to shoot
. They cautioned teachers about the liability that comes with packing a gun in public.

"It's going to be a hassle. It's another responsibility. You can't just leave your gun lying around," Aposhian said. "Not for a minute."

The teachers at the basic gun training applied for a concealed-weapons permit, submitting fingerprints and a mug shot for a criminal background check. The class kicked off as an instructor in the "psychology of mass violence" offered various tactics to disrupt an assailant.

The first, the instructor said, was to start with the command: "Stop right there!"


"I wouldn't hesitate to shoot if the danger was immediate," said Fiveash, adding that her laser sight would make shooting in tight quarters safer.

English teacher Kevin Leatherbarrow said he often felt threatened while working at an inner-city school in Buffalo, N.Y., where he got a license to carry a pistol. He moved less than a year ago to Utah, where he feels safer
. But he said gun violence can break out anywhere.

Leatherbarrow said he was highly trained in handling guns — and was taking criticism from parents who don't appreciate his views on school safety.

"I'm in agreement not everybody should be carrying firearms in school. They're not trained. But for some parents to think we're cowboys, that frustrates me," he said. "I wish parents would understand."


In the U.S., the number of homicides at schools of children, ages 5-18, have been lower year-by-year in the 2000s than they were in the mid- to late-1990s, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics report on school crime released in 2012. At 32 deaths, the 2006-2007 school year was the only one that reached the levels from the 1990s. The manner of death was not listed.

Utah is among a few states that let people carry licensed concealed weapons into public schools without exception, the National Conference of State Legislatures says in a 2012 compendium of state gun laws.

Utah educators say they would ban guns if they could, but legislators left them with no choice. State law forbids schools, districts or college campuses from imposing their own gun restrictions.


Educators say they have no way of knowing how many teachers are armed. Gun-rights advocates estimate 1 percent of Utah teachers, or 240, are licensed to carry concealed weapons. It's not known how many do so at school.

"I never felt threatened in 14 years of teaching, but I don't think you can be too prepared," said Tiffany Parry, a dance teacher in the Salt Lake City suburb of Sandy who applied for Thursday for a license to carry a concealed gun. "I think it could come in handy."

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mollywobbles867 31st-Dec-2012 11:02 pm (UTC)
strwbrri_shrtck 31st-Dec-2012 11:10 pm (UTC)
lovedforaday 31st-Dec-2012 11:16 pm (UTC)
Leatherbarrow said he was highly trained in handling guns — and was taking criticism from parents who don't appreciate his views on school safety.

"I'm in agreement not everybody should be carrying firearms in school. They're not trained. But for some parents to think we're cowboys, that frustrates me," he said. "I wish parents would understand."


oh god.

i'm sure am glad that i'm not in school anymore. i wouldn't want to sit in some classrooms with some of the racist and/or volatile teachers i had if they were armed.
blackjedii 31st-Dec-2012 11:16 pm (UTC)
I bet the school system will pay for those guns too
Or else make the teachers pay for them
Not, you know, things schools actually need
lovedforaday 31st-Dec-2012 11:25 pm (UTC)
Well, the class is voluntary. Also I'm betting most of the people who took the course were already gun owners or ~gun rights~ sympathizers.
ahzuri 31st-Dec-2012 11:20 pm (UTC)
Nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope
baka_tenshi 31st-Dec-2012 11:25 pm (UTC)
Utah educators say they would ban guns if they could, but legislators left them with no choice. State law forbids schools, districts or college campuses from imposing their own gun restrictions.

then... come together to change state law? put it to a vote? campaign for it?

naaah.
cuterabbit33 31st-Dec-2012 11:28 pm (UTC)
ending the new year as only this country could. ugh.
romp 31st-Dec-2012 11:36 pm (UTC)
So fucking reactive. I know that's more satisfying than long-term solutions but grow the fuck up, US, and start dealing with your problems. You (and others) need less child poverty, more actual support for families, and education on parenting. You need to drop stigmas that lead to isolation and support people rather than sell them to corporations. Focus on an end to debt, on suicide prevention, and on emotional health. Empty the prisons by helping the people who'd be filling them in 20 years.
/RAGE
futureframe 1st-Jan-2013 01:10 am (UTC)
truth!
thevelvetsun 31st-Dec-2012 11:44 pm (UTC)
Teachers are already expected to be parents, babysitters, career counselors, janitors, and now let's add police officers to the list. Wonderful. Just keep cutting our pay and benefits while you're at it.
vyrdaeom 1st-Jan-2013 02:43 am (UTC)
This exactly.

Not only the decrease in pay, but really, what happens if a teacher DOES kill someone on accident while trying to stop a mass killer? They don't have the liability and protections legally cops do. So for a teacher "saving" a class of twenty or more, we tell them "Sorry, you also shot Johnny and in that case we have to charge you with X".

Absolutely stupid.
fishphile 31st-Dec-2012 11:59 pm (UTC)
Not only does this seem to put teachers in greater danger imo, but this makes me so uneasy. And if I'm really honest this whole thing concerns me for kids of color, who are already disproportionately (sp) targeted in schools. Arizona has enough racist issues to start with before adding armed teachers to the mix.
angelofdeath275 1st-Jan-2013 03:35 am (UTC)
Yeeeah youre right
nutmegdealer 1st-Jan-2013 12:10 am (UTC)
alachua county's already planning to have armed guards at elementary schools, so i'm not surprised.
yooperchild 1st-Jan-2013 12:11 am (UTC)
I've been teaching seven years and I've always pictured myself doing it my whole working life...but lately, I don't know if I can. My husband waits tables and made the same amount of money as me last year (again 7 years with a master's). And then I read stuff like this and realize what could be coming. Ugh.
ljtaylor 1st-Jan-2013 12:17 am (UTC)
So did that training also include how to stop a high schooler from disarming you?
futureframe 1st-Jan-2013 01:09 am (UTC)
exactly what I was wondering...
lamardeuse 1st-Jan-2013 12:18 am (UTC)
There are times when I feel like the United States has gone completely fucking insane. Sadly, that's most of the time now.
mskye 1st-Jan-2013 12:21 am (UTC)
the US has always been fucking insane
mskye 1st-Jan-2013 12:20 am (UTC)
omfg how many more schoolchildren are going to be slaughtered before america gets its shit together
wingstar102 1st-Jan-2013 12:25 am (UTC)
Better question for the comm: How long will it be before a teacher accidentally shoots a child because the teacher is mistaking an action on the student's part or an object in their hand? This will not end well.
fishphile 1st-Jan-2013 12:32 am (UTC)
Yep. I completely see this scenario happening before someone actually successfully stops a mass shooting.
intrikate88 1st-Jan-2013 12:57 am (UTC)
bethan_b_bad 1st-Jan-2013 01:33 am (UTC)
Aaaaand right there we have exactly why I would never live full-time in the US, and especially why I would never, never, EVER raise a child there.
spyral_path 1st-Jan-2013 01:49 am (UTC)
This is a really bad idea. Give every teacher a gun and it's only a matter of time before one of them shoots a student, either accidentally or on purpose.
kitschaster 1st-Jan-2013 09:45 am (UTC)
...or because mental illness, because that's your argument.
hirra_chan 1st-Jan-2013 02:08 am (UTC)
"I wouldn't hesitate to shoot if the danger was immediate,"

Then I don't ever want to be a student in your class, lady.
boogans 1st-Jan-2013 02:28 am (UTC)
So when a teacher ends up shooting a student for whatever reason, are we as a country going to blame the other students for not being armed and shooting the teacher first?
redstar826 1st-Jan-2013 02:37 am (UTC)
I'm probably in far more danger driving to the school than I am once I walk into the building. This just seems to unnecessary and paranoid. I'm all for reasonable precautions (for instance one building I work in decided that they would be more consistent in making sure the various side doors were locked from the outside, since they were pretty lax about it in the past), but this seems ridiculous.
tabaqui 1st-Jan-2013 03:15 am (UTC)
English teacher Kevin Leatherbarrow said he often felt threatened while working at an inner-city school in Buffalo, N.Y....

And this is why he should NOT BE carrying a fucking gun. FUCKING HELL.
zombieroadtrip I can't see how this could go wrong...1st-Jan-2013 11:07 am (UTC)
I wonder if this idiot has thought about the fact that his full name is out there for all those kids who have threatened him to know he is the possible source of an easy access weapon
shorofsky 1st-Jan-2013 05:52 pm (UTC)
Yep, home steading and home schooling seem to be in my family's future if this keeps up. My in laws already have a homestead with lots of land that we can live on. Why would anyone everevereverever think it's a good idea to arm teachers? I've had some terrible teachers in my life. Some who bore grudges and some who were nasty to students and I've had two who beat students they didn't like. Imagine those two armed with a gun... That's scary.
ladypolitik 2nd-Jan-2013 12:13 am (UTC)
English teacher Kevin Leatherbarrow said he often felt threatened while working at an inner-city school in Buffalo, N.Y., where he got a license to carry a pistol. He moved less than a year ago to Utah, where he feels safer.

If you feel "threatened" working in schools, get the fuck out of education and pursue a different career path, then. Just keep yourself and your guns away from our inner-city children, or from any sector that involves working with vulnerable populations, for that matter.

(1) A love how an incident involving a horrifying mass shooting that occurred in a well-off/up-scale area and affected a predominantly white and affluent community has become an excuse to not only perpetuate dated racist tropes about "the inner-city", but also a licence to entertain thinly-veiled Paranoid White People revenge fantasies propelled by their own white privilege.

(2) And then there's this gem:


Above, a man tests a child’s bulletproof backpack in Salt Lake City, Utah. [George Frey | Getty Images]


a man tests a child’s bulletproof backpack
a man tests a child’s bulletproof backpack
bulletproof backpack

In what universe is a PINK BULLETPROOF BACKPACK even a THING, never mind a real life representation of a viable threat? Holy fucking shit, these people are creepy, dangerous, hysterical idiots.
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