ONTD Political

France's parliament approve gay marriage article

1:50 am - 02/03/2013

this photo is from a different article, but i thought it was too cute not to post!

The French National Assembly has approved the most important article of a bill to legalise same-sex marriage.

Deputies voted 249-97 in favour of redefining marriage as being an agreement between two people - not just between a man and a woman.


President Francois Hollande's Socialists and their left-wing supporters backed it, opposed by many opposition UMP and centrist MPs.

The proposals have generated protests and counter-protests for months.

Opinion polls suggest that around 55-60% of French people support gay marriage, though only about 50% approve of gay adoption.

Correspondents say the ease with which the article passed suggests the bill as a whole will pass.

Debates are expected to go on for more than a week, as MPs discuss hundreds of amendments, most of them filed by the centre-right opposition.

On the way they are expected to approve the other key measure in the bill, which would allow gay couples to adopt children.



'Freedom to choose'
The bill marks one of France's biggest social reforms since the abolition of the death penalty in 1981.

"We are happy and proud to have taken this first step," Justice Minister Christiane Taubira said.

"We are going to establish the freedom for everyone to choose his or her partner for a future together."

UMP MP Philippe Gosselin said the legislation was only the beginning of a trend that the French people did not want.

"Today it is marriage and adoption. Tomorrow it will be medically assisted conception and surrogate mothers."

It is expected that the legislation will reach the statute books by the middle of the year, AFP reports.

In September last year, Cardinal Philippe Barbarin, the Roman Catholic archbishop of Lyon, argued that plans to redefine the concept of marriage would open the door to incest and polygamy.

The debate in the National Assembly is due to last throughout the weekend.

bbc
tiddlywinks103 3rd-Feb-2013 08:14 am (UTC)
Nice, nice, Sexy, sexy...
ohmiya_sg 3rd-Feb-2013 08:21 am (UTC)
"Today it is marriage and adoption. Tomorrow it will be medically assisted conception and surrogate mothers."

Wait, those are banned in France? Is that what that means? o.O

(And obviously, yay for this article passing!)

Edited at 2013-02-03 08:22 am (UTC)
yeats 3rd-Feb-2013 08:29 am (UTC)
i don't know about the former, but surrogacy is illegal in france.
ohmiya_sg 3rd-Feb-2013 08:36 am (UTC)
Hmm. I see their point about women of low economic status being taken advantage of, but why can't they do this of their own free will (not like the slaves in their analogy) and be compensated? I am assuming this is a fertilized egg being implanted and not just artificially inseminating the women, so the child would not be genetically hers. Poor people go through a lot of shit to make a living, and if a women knowingly enters into a contract like this... it's not like she's selling her kids, just renting her uterus (with all the dangers and discomforts that includes).

Ignore if you don't want to enter into it, I just figured my thoughts would fit best after this link.
yeats 3rd-Feb-2013 08:45 am (UTC)
i mean, i don't have the standing from either a personal or a real knowledge-based perspective to have this discussion, and i don't want to derail from the topic at hand -- although surrogacy and medically assisted insemination (which i just did a google for and is apparently banned as well) are issues that impact gay and lesbian couples. i will say, though, that french policy on surrogacy at least is similar to policy in germany and italy. and even many countries that do allow for so-called altruistic surrogacy (where surrogates are only paid for their expenses) outlaw commercial surrogacy.
ohmiya_sg 3rd-Feb-2013 08:48 am (UTC)
My first thought was honestly that is was a thin disguise to outlaw something important to many gay and lesbian couples, pretending it was for the woman's own good.
yeats 3rd-Feb-2013 08:54 am (UTC)
ehhhhhh, i think it's a little more complicated than that. there's a whole literature regarding the ethics of surrogacy and its class ramifications, and it doesn't just refer to lgbt couples; i may be wrong, but it's my understanding that most of these techniques were created to help straight couples initially. i don't doubt that a lot of the right-wing pushback to it stems from a homophobic place now, but i honestly think that steps toward the commodification of human life are philosophical issues that people can disagree about.
ohmiya_sg 3rd-Feb-2013 08:55 am (UTC)
Yes, it was just my immediate thought.
moonshaz 4th-Feb-2013 05:40 am (UTC)
I agree.
amyura 3rd-Feb-2013 05:38 pm (UTC)
It's definitely more than just LGBT issues. The Catholic Church, for example, which is at least nominally powerful in western Europe, is against just about every means of reproduction other than heterosexual PIV sex between a married couple. They are okay with artificial insemination with the husband's own sperm, but that's it.
ohmiya_sg 3rd-Feb-2013 07:17 pm (UTC)
Yes, it seems all wrapped in the religious right's beliefs in personhood and the role of god in procreation.
pleasure_past 3rd-Feb-2013 10:06 pm (UTC)
I don't know... As a lesbian, I definitely think that outlawing altruistic surrogacy and artificial insemination (assuming the sperm donor isn't anonymous, in which case it's an ethical grey area to me for entirely different reasons) is bullshit, but I'm uncomfortable with commercial surrogacy because I'm uncomfortable with pretty much anything that treats female bodies as commodities that can be purchased. I do think it dehumanizes women and often results in many labouring class women being exploited.
benihime99 3rd-Feb-2013 10:15 am (UTC)
Medically assisted conception is legal for heterosexual couple or single mothers - (very hard in that case though), lesbian couple can somehow "cheat" by not presenting themselves as a couple and only one would be insiminated and would actually be considered as a single mother (it's very complicated though)
Surrogacy is illegal.

About your other comment
"but why can't they do this of their own free will (not like the slaves in their analogy) and be compensated?"

IIRC the compensation part is also a problem; In france it's illegal to sell body "part" or "product" (sorry if the words are off, I don't know how to put it in english).
It's "l'indisponibilité du corps humain" which means that the human body can not be the object of a contract.
For instance it's strictly forbidden to sell sperm or to be compensated for giving sperm. It has to be free and anonymous and somehow surogacy is seen as "renting" one's body which is illegal.
kaizopp 3rd-Feb-2013 11:02 am (UTC)
benihime is correct, the deal with surrogacy is that it's illegal to sell or rent the human body or its parts. So no you can't rent out your uterus anymore than you could sell your baby. If I wanted to get money for donating eggs/sperm, I'd have to go to Spain. And that's a pretty fundamental basis in french law, so I doubt it'd ever be changed.
violetrose 3rd-Feb-2013 05:19 pm (UTC)
That makes a lot of sense - and from that perspective, I can't say it should necessarily be reformed or changed. I do have issues with surrogacy myself, for the reasons yeats mentioned - it can be a tool for richer couples to exploit poor and or/immigrant women. These same issues, of course, also exist within the adoption industry, particularly international adoption.

It's clear a good deal of current opposition comes from homophobia; but the basic law comes from a philosophical and ethical point of view.
magli 3rd-Feb-2013 09:29 am (UTC)
I love news like this. The world is moving forwards!
zombie_process 3rd-Feb-2013 11:17 am (UTC)
In September last year, Cardinal Philippe Barbarin, the Roman Catholic archbishop of Lyon, argued that plans to redefine the concept of marriage would open the door to incest and polygamy

One of our main opponents, Christine Boutin, is straight, a Christian and also very married to her first cousin. But yeah, sure, LGBTI're going to open the door to incest.
suzycat 3rd-Feb-2013 01:59 pm (UTC)
What chic brides!
astridmyrna 3rd-Feb-2013 03:50 pm (UTC)
intrikate88 3rd-Feb-2013 04:08 pm (UTC)
brb totally distracted by absolutely adorable couple
tabaqui 3rd-Feb-2013 04:15 pm (UTC)
Yay!

And something about a bride in a furry coat - it's just so pretty! Winter weddings rock. :)
elobelia 3rd-Feb-2013 04:40 pm (UTC)
Zomg, I was standing on that corner last year!!! Someone handed me a letter from Sarkozy begging me to reelect him! It was like 10 pages long!

I hope this passes. Hollande isn't exactly wonderful, but at least he managed to get this done within a year of being elected. It must be nice.
violetrose 3rd-Feb-2013 05:21 pm (UTC)
I see it happening, particularly if it's already had a 249-97 vote. Good for France!

Now Britain needs to get its act together and stop fucking around.
amyura 3rd-Feb-2013 05:35 pm (UTC)
That picture gives me goose bumps and makes me break out into a grin.

I'm actually surprised that France didn't do this sooner, given the government-imposed laïcité. Just about all the anti-equality arguments are rooted in religion, after all.
moonshaz 4th-Feb-2013 05:43 am (UTC)
What good news! And what a cute couple! <3<4<3
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