ONTD Political

Let Talk about Tasers


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Nowadays, the theme of civil liberties seem to be a sub-plot to a James Bond flick rather than "To Kill A Mockingbird." And yet, I think the two are intertwined much more closely that we think. In our apparent acceptance of torture as a legal method of interrogation, the bar of civilized official behavior has been lowered to the point where we are accepting torture in everyday life as if it's nothing. Indeed, we are using it as a form of entertainment. I'm speaking of the ever more common use of the Taser, an electrical device used by police and other authorities to drop its victims to the ground and coerce instant compliance. The videos of various incidents make the rounds on the internet and you can see by the comments at the YouTube site that a large number of Americans find tasering to be a sort of slapstick comedy, the equivalent of someone slipping on a banana peel, with a touch of that authoritarian cruelty that always seems to amuse a certain kind of person. "Don't tase me bro" is a national catch phrase.

Tasers aren't benign however. They kill people. Nobody knows exactly why some people die from being tasered, and they certainly don't know how to tell in advance which ones are at risk. But there have been hundreds of deaths similar to the one below, which nobody can adequately explain:

A Detroit teenager who police say fled a traffic stop Friday died after being subdued with a Taser. He is the second Michigan teen to die following a Taser stun in less than a month. Warren Police say they don't know why the 15-year-old bailed out of a Dodge Stratus he was riding in during the stop on Eight Mile near Schoenherr, leading officers on a half-block chase that ended in an abandoned house on Pelkey in Detroit. The car was stopped for having an expired license plate. In the scuffle, officers shocked the teen one time with a Taser, police said. Shortly after, he became unresponsive and died.
Taser International has successfully defended themselves in lawsuits by attributing the deaths to drug use and if that doesn't work do to the fact that drugs were not present in the victim, they rely on an unrecognized medical condition called "excited delirium", a disease that only afflicts people who die in police custody. Juries apparently find this convincing. Taser has only lost one case.

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Last week there were three taser episodes that made the rounds on the internet. (There may have been more, but these were the three most discussed.)

It was the third incident, however, that should get civil libertarians' serious attention. It featured an Idaho man on a bicycle who happened to ride past a police stop in progress on the side of the road. He had nothing to do with the stop, but was pulled over by the police and told to produce his ID. He said, correctly, that he had no legal obligation to produce ID and the police insisted he must. The situation escalated and he demanded that they call a supervisor to the scene when the police said they were going to arrest him. He ended up being tasered seven times -- you can hear him moaning in pain on the tape at the end. (In an especially creepy moment, the police try to confiscate the tape of the incident.)

Now, many people will say that he should have just showed his ID, that it's stupid to confront police, that like Henry Louis Gates you get what you deserve if you mouth off to the cops. And on a pragmatic level this is certainly true (although I would reiterate what I wrote here about a free people not being required to view the police in the same way they view a criminal street gang, which is to say in fear.) But the fact remains that there is no law against riding a bicycle without ID, and there is no law against mouthing off to the police.MORE

brewsternorth 11th-Aug-2009 06:53 pm (UTC)
FYI for those who haven't read the source: although this is Greenwald's column, Digby is standing in for him today.
lied_ohne_worte 11th-Aug-2009 06:59 pm (UTC)
Now, many people will say that he should have just showed his ID, that it's stupid to confront police, that like Henry Louis Gates you get what you deserve if you mouth off to the cops.

That's what I really do not get - the stance that many US people, even in this comm, seem to take when such incidents are discussed, that police officers may do whatever they like, and as soon as someone resists in any way or even criticises them within the borders of their own rights, the police can legitimately use excessive violence.

I've seen people shrug off things that would have been major scandals in my country. I've also seen my US student exchange partner and her friends be absolutely scared when our car broke down and a police car came near, even though noone of us had done anything wrong, where in my country the reaction would have been "Oh, nice police officers who'll help us with the car". I really don't know if we're more careful of how our uniformed people behave due to our history, or if it's something else...
schonste 11th-Aug-2009 07:02 pm (UTC)
I have to admit, I loved the police in Leipzig. They were only really around to give out traffic tickets and their uniforms were so cute. :x
lied_ohne_worte 11th-Aug-2009 07:07 pm (UTC)
Did they still have the beige-brown uniform combination? Because lately, they have started switching to blue, which throws me off so much. The beige-brown was somewhat fugly, but it was recognisable because noone else would have voluntary chosen it. Nowadays, if I see the blue uniforms, I'm never really sure if they are police officers or some kind of security guards or train drivers or pilots...
schonste 11th-Aug-2009 07:55 pm (UTC)
lol, they wore green when I was there :x Green jumpsuits, practically.
lied_ohne_worte 11th-Aug-2009 08:02 pm (UTC)
Ah yes, green is also part of it. The jumpsuits might have been what they wear when they expect physical fighting, like with demonstrations. The normal old uniform was this. (It's amazing what kinds of results you get when you google "Polizeiuniform".)
schonste 11th-Aug-2009 08:39 pm (UTC)
I dunno about the physical fighting thing. Maybe they're just used to breaking up constant punk brawls in Leipzig, because any police officers I saw on the street were in green jumpsuits and cute little hats. It's funny, 'cause in the US I don't like the idea of the police being the only people armed -- but in Germany I felt really safe with them being the only people (well, mostly) with guns. XD;
schonste 11th-Aug-2009 07:02 pm (UTC)
I love it when people defend tasers because they're nonlethal.
brewsternorth 11th-Aug-2009 07:12 pm (UTC)
Someone in comments at one of Digby's posts on tasering, who was a police officer, pointed out that, once ze'd found out that tasers = not so nonlethal in a significant minority of cases (due to a heart condition), started to take the batteries out of zir taser and use zir baton instead.
luno 11th-Aug-2009 07:31 pm (UTC)
"them" and "they" are considerably less awkward to read/hear/say.
brewsternorth 11th-Aug-2009 07:35 pm (UTC)
YMMV. I'll stick to my gender-free third-person-singular if you don't mind.
hourglasscreate 11th-Aug-2009 07:56 pm (UTC)
That's the first time I've ever seen that. I just thought you were illiterate.
unusualmusic 11th-Aug-2009 08:01 pm (UTC)
*whistles* wow. That is a bit presumptuous of you. Something is unfamiliar to you and you immediately presume that the person is illiterate?
schonste 11th-Aug-2009 08:09 pm (UTC)
Are you freaking serious? Good lord I wonder about this comm sometimes.
fauxparadiso 11th-Aug-2009 07:37 pm (UTC)
lol I assumed that a letter key on the keyboard was broken or it was some weird fake accent joke.
luno 11th-Aug-2009 08:05 pm (UTC)
No, it's just a linguistic cry for attention.
dreitropfenblut 11th-Aug-2009 08:13 pm (UTC)
Everything that you personally wouldn't do is a cry for attention.
schonste 11th-Aug-2009 08:06 pm (UTC)
Ugh I can't deal with using "they" singularly. I know it's starting to get more usage, but it's preferable to me to use "one".
luno 11th-Aug-2009 08:20 pm (UTC)
I agree, however it's antiquated. It fills me with visions of a girdled, old granny, sitting in her rocking chair, doling out corrections to unruly children playing in the yard.
excusemesenator 11th-Aug-2009 07:11 pm (UTC)
The tacit acceptance by so many in this country that police are above the law is truly frightening to me.
leelakin 12th-Aug-2009 02:14 pm (UTC)
lol no kidding, maybe all their lawyers called in sick.
arisma 12th-Aug-2009 12:25 am (UTC)
For the umpteenth time since "don't tase me, bro" became a national haha moment I will repeat, this is un-fucking-acceptable.
hourglasscreate 12th-Aug-2009 12:40 am (UTC)
When I was a child I was taught that if I ever needed help I could go to a policeman. Fast forward 50 years to the 21st Century and I would never go to a policeman for help because I know that 1) he won't do anything and 2) he's likely to be abusive to the victim. This is a very sad thing for a person who came from a family of cops to have to admit.
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