ONTD Political

Herman Cain's 999 plan will create jobs by establishing a new "used food" industry!

10:49 am - 10/16/2011
Herman Cain: "Some people will pay more" under 999 plan."


Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain acknowledged on Sunday his "9-9-9" tax reform plan would raise taxes on some Americans but denied criticism it would help the rich while hurting the poor.


"Some people will pay more. But most people will pay less," Cain, a former chief executive of Godfather's Pizza who has never held elected office, said on NBC's "Meet the Press" program.


The acknowledgment of higher taxes could give ammunition to a growing number of Cain critics, including anti-tax crusader Grover Norquist, who oppose his plan.


Cain entered the presidential race as a long shot but has recently shown signs of front-runner status with backing from fiscally conservative Tea Party activists who believe his plan would lead to lower federal taxes.


The 9-9-9 plan would replace the complex U.S. tax code with a 9 percent income tax, a 9 percent corporate tax and a new 9 percent national sales tax.


"Who would pay more? The people who spend more money on new goods. The sales tax only applies to people who buy new goods, not used goods. That's a big difference," Cain told NBC.


Cain placed first in an NBC-Wall Street Journal poll among Republican candidates and second in a Reuters Ipsos poll but his fundraising totals in the third quarter were far behind the leading contenders -- former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney and Texas Governor Rick Perry.
President Barack Obama, a Democrat, faces a rough fight for re-election in November 2012 but his Republican rivals must convince voters they have a better plan to create jobs and get the economy moving again.


Despite its popularity in some quarters, Cain's 9-9-9 plan is under fire from across the political spectrum and independent analysts who say it would raise taxes on the poor and middle class.


Norquist said in a recent interview with Reuters Insider he worries that all three taxes in Cain's plan could be raised in future.


The Wall Street Journal warned a national sales tax -- a fixture of many western economies -- could raise taxes on goods in some areas to 17 percent or more when combined with state and local levies.


"If you add them together, yes, you'd get that number," Cain said.


But he dismissed the idea of considering state taxes alongside the 9-9-9 plan as "muddying the water" because federal taxes would go down in most cases.


He said the plan's elimination of "invisible" taxes now paid by manufacturers under the current system would lead to lower retail prices.


"In reality, those taxes go away, so the prices of goods don't go up," Cain said. "They actually go down based upon competition. Competition drives prices down."


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ETA: magical vanishing tags

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lickety_split 16th-Oct-2011 04:09 pm (UTC)
Didn't he base his 999 plan off of the tax system in Sim City 2000?

Also,

magicpebble 16th-Oct-2011 04:13 pm (UTC)
I hadn't made the connection before, but you're right, it's EXACTLY like Sim City 2000.
erunamiryene 16th-Oct-2011 04:11 pm (UTC)
"Who would pay more? The people who spend more money on new goods. The sales tax only applies to people who buy new goods, not used goods. That's a big difference," Cain told NBC.

So ... on TOP OF my state sales tax ...
milk
bread
meats
vegetables (PLEASE no one say "just start a garden!")
spaghetti noodles
spaghetti sauce
diapers
wipes
formula
ramen

(*this list is not all-inclusive, it's the first things that came to mind when I was REALLY scraping by)

Oh, no big deal. it's totally cool that everything on this list will become more expensive. After all, I was just paying for diapers & wipes with spare change for FUN, not because i was fucking BROKE AS SHIT.

But hey, flat taxes are FAIR! Flat tax! Free market! Wooo! If you don't like them and think they'll disproportionately punish the poor, you're just stupid!

Edited at 2011-10-16 04:12 pm (UTC)
yamamanama 16th-Oct-2011 04:18 pm (UTC)
You're poor! You have no right to fresh food or clean diapers! So sayeth Herman Cain.
yamamanama 16th-Oct-2011 04:14 pm (UTC)
Makes me wonder if he's trying to create a larger economic and social gap between the wealthy and not-wealthy.
quizzicalsphinx 16th-Oct-2011 04:19 pm (UTC)
DING DING DING DING
magicpebble 16th-Oct-2011 04:18 pm (UTC)
While I agree that the tax code needs reform, I really don't see how this plan would benefit the vast majority of Americans. A national sales tax is just a bad idea, even if things like used goods and (I'm assuming) food are exempt.
amyura 16th-Oct-2011 07:13 pm (UTC)
Food's not exempt.
kitbug Semi OT16th-Oct-2011 04:36 pm (UTC)
GUYS GUYS GUYS HELP ME

There's a person I'm friends with on facebook who I genuinely enjoy the company of and I only get to see him a couple times a year at seminars, but holy shit he thinks Herman Cain is a viable candidate, and he's a Teabagger, and he genuinely believes in the whole "job creators" bullshit, and I want to keep liking him, but his posts make me want to rage-spaz at him.

WHAT DO
quizzicalsphinx Re: Semi OT16th-Oct-2011 04:42 pm (UTC)
1) Wait for him to bring up Cain first. If you just send him a link to this article, you'll be accused of looking for things to argue about and any valid points you have will be nixed.


2) The next time he mentions Cain, say "I heard what he said about 999 and I'm a little concerned about what this 999 thing would mean for average taxpayers" and THEN show him this article.

mercystars 16th-Oct-2011 04:41 pm (UTC)
Used, food, eh? In other words: EAT SHIT.
suthrncan 16th-Oct-2011 06:39 pm (UTC)
A+ Especially since I heard this in Conan's voice.
age_of_green 16th-Oct-2011 04:42 pm (UTC)
Soylent Green is people. That's all I'm going to say.
decuvieri 16th-Oct-2011 05:27 pm (UTC)
And because it's technically a recycled good, no 9% tax on it.

Suddenly we need the "eat the rich" tag for this post.
the_gabih 16th-Oct-2011 04:47 pm (UTC)
"Who would pay more? The people who spend more money on new goods. The sales tax only applies to people who buy new goods, not used goods. That's a big difference," Cain told NBC.

You bet.

New food:



Used food:

kangofu 16th-Oct-2011 05:11 pm (UTC)
ORLY?
misadventurelad 16th-Oct-2011 05:15 pm (UTC)
NGL, "used food" conjured up images of caca and THAT made me die inside.
kangofu 16th-Oct-2011 05:20 pm (UTC)
"Some people will pay more. But most people will pay less.

So, with many states broke and slashing needed jobs and programs, we're going to collect less taxes? And we'll make up the difference by selling even more bonds to China, right?
skellington1 16th-Oct-2011 05:21 pm (UTC)
I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and suggest that the sales tax probably wouldn't apply to food, just like it doesn't apply to food with many (all?) state sales taxes.

Of course, that still leaves all the OTHER giant problems -- percentage of income spent on 'necessary' goods being higher among the poor and middle class, for instance, or the simple fact that simple one-size-fits-all plans never fit anyone, or the laughable idea that Cain's worried about 'invisible' taxes paid by big business (aren't they invisible because they're not there? just checkin)... but if we want people to realize how idiotic the thing is, it's probably best not to go the *extra* fear-mongering route. There's enough there to be legitimately pissed with as is.
quizzicalsphinx 16th-Oct-2011 06:03 pm (UTC)
Alabama and Mississippi charge full tax on all food items. I know other states tax food on a reduced rate or else have an offsetting tax-credit, but I don't have those numbers.
leprofessional "Eat Shit and Live"16th-Oct-2011 05:55 pm (UTC)
Relevant:
aiffe Re: "Eat Shit and Live"17th-Oct-2011 10:06 pm (UTC)
Holy edible shit.

Edit: Yes, I know it's satire. Just on the nose.

Edited at 2011-10-17 10:07 pm (UTC)
tinyrevolution 16th-Oct-2011 06:06 pm (UTC)
Really tho why is he the only one saying something about simplifying the tax code? How about a Democrat run for president by saying get rid of corporate loopholes and posing simpler replacement plans that are NON STUPID?

If they lowered the "official" tax rates and got rid of the loopholes, corporations would have to pay more AND they coudn't complain about the US's tax-rates-on-paper (which right now mean nothing after loopholes) AND you wouldn't have companies like Chevron paying zero and just sitting there while a few scattered un-bought-out people wonder WHY THE HELL HAVE YOU PAID ZERO!?!?

Loopholes benefit all the ppl who hire teams of accountants and punish those of us who just download random tax freeware on google. Loopholes are hard for any politician to publicly defend. They'd try, but they'd be gritting their teeth the whole time.

But of course it took 3 years and an army of focus groups for Obama to just figure out that a "millionaire tax" is an easy thing to sell. Whatever.
3bird 16th-Oct-2011 07:18 pm (UTC)
Obama did say he would be open to that plan back during the "grand bargain" negotiations but idk what happened to it after the debt ceiling showdown.
layweed 16th-Oct-2011 06:23 pm (UTC)
Gross oversimplifications of our country's problems yay!!!!

Either that or a stunning lack of understanding when it comes to math and economics and stuff.
hinoema 17th-Oct-2011 12:34 am (UTC)
I say both.
ishachan 16th-Oct-2011 06:36 pm (UTC)
Used food versus new food? o_0
jiaren_shadow 16th-Oct-2011 07:17 pm (UTC)
You see, for me, "used food" conjures up the image of a mother bird barfing up food for her chicks.
3bird 16th-Oct-2011 07:20 pm (UTC)
"In reality, those taxes go away, so the prices of goods don't go up," Cain said. "They actually go down based upon competition. Competition drives prices down."

The way the airlines lowered their ticket prices in August during their tax holiday?
compost75 16th-Oct-2011 07:46 pm (UTC)
Exactly the same way airlines lowered their ticket prices.
elobelia 16th-Oct-2011 08:08 pm (UTC)
So, if nobody can afford to buy new goods, and are all buying used goods instead, how is that supposed to help the economy exactly?
yamamanama 16th-Oct-2011 08:15 pm (UTC)
It doesn't. It just sounds good to Republican voters.
normaltrouble 16th-Oct-2011 08:57 pm (UTC)
Used food.
Delish.
hammersxstrings 16th-Oct-2011 11:00 pm (UTC)
used food.
hm.




legit can't believe this douche is the frontrunner in the race for the nod. smdh.
koken23 17th-Oct-2011 12:34 am (UTC)
Used food is not a saleable commodity unless you're putting it on your garden.
free_spoons 17th-Oct-2011 01:49 am (UTC)
Awesome! Poor people can now just eat apple cores, pizza crusts and the fat cut off of rich people's steaks tax free! Hermain Cain's tax plan suddenly looks plausible! /sarcasm
thewebheadnw 17th-Oct-2011 08:57 am (UTC)
I'm a big proponent for tax code simplification and removing deductions that are carved out thanks to influence and money of k-street or attempt to pick ideological winners and losers, but I just don't see a republican house and senate adding a new national sales tax while maintaining an income tax. A tax code that levels the playing field while maintaining a reasonable degree of progressivity - something not currently the case when 47% pay no federal income tax and going way beyond the poverty level - should be the ultimate goal.
sobota 17th-Oct-2011 10:37 am (UTC)
i just learned what the british VAT scheme is and have learnt that, whilst most goods are taxed at the standard 20%, there's also a 5% and 0% VAT for things like electricity & gas (5%) and children's/baby's clothing (0%).

this is actually making me research. i do like the french scheme, where bread is never taxed and things to MAKE bread have reduced VAT. the french sometimes know what they're doing ;)
mephisto5 17th-Oct-2011 12:58 pm (UTC)
Food deemed essential in the UK isn't taxed (for some reason cake is deemed essential, but biscuits aren't, but anyway), so I don't pay any VAT on most of what I buy, including vegetables and decent meat.
synth___romance 17th-Oct-2011 04:40 pm (UTC)
people who say a flat tax is fair scare me.

and not even in the regular scary way, in the, my chest gets tight, I'm terrified for the future, packing my bags, ready to move to central europe kind of way.
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