ONTD Political

  So, this isn't the usual political stuff, but it speaks to rape culture and I thought it might still be appropriate here. Prudie has a weekly advice column/live chat in Slate magazine and today, a woman's friend wrote in and said she doubted her friend had been raped. The rest is...not good. A WORLD of not good.



Q. Friend Has Revised One-Night Stand Story: A friend recently called me and said she had a one-night stand after drinking too much. She was beating herself up over drinking too much and going home with a guy she met at a bar. I reassured her that everyone makes mistakes and didn't think much more of the account. However, since then, she has told many people that she was a victim of date-rape—that the guy must have put something into her drink . She spoke to a rape crisis line, and they said even if she was drunk, she couldn't have given consent so she was a victim of rape. She now wants to press charges—she has the guy's business card. I have seen her very intoxicated on previous occasions, to the point she doesn't remember anything the next day. I'm not sure on what my response should be at this point. Pretend she never told me the original story?


A: Trying to ruin someone else's life is a poor way to address one's alcohol and self-control problems. Since her first version of the story is that she was ashamed of her behavior, and since you have seen her knee-walking drunk on other occasions, it sounds as if she wants to punish the guy at the bar for her own poor choices. Yes, I agree that men should not have sex with drunk women they don't know. But I think cases like the one you are describing here—in the absence of any evidence she was drugged—where someone voluntarily goes home with a stranger in order to have a sexual encounter, makes it that much harder for women who are assaulted to bring charges. Talk to your friend. Tell her that she needs to think very long and hard about filing a criminal complaint against this guy if there's any way her behavior could be construed to be consensual. Say you understand her shame, but you're concerned about her drinking, and if she addresses that, she won't find herself in such painful situations.


Later, Prudie gets another person commenting on the question, and uses the opportunity to be even more sexist and awful...

Q. RE: One-Night Stand Story: If someone is intoxicated to the point where they are not able to remember their actions, or if they are stumbling around drunk, then they are not capable to consenting to sexual relations, and the friend may very well have been raped without having been given date-rape drugs ... Of course, I am not certain how this works if BOTH parties are falling down drunk ...

A: This is why it's a really good idea not to get so drunk you are no longer responsible for your actions. Presumably the guy was drinking, too. So two drunk people voluntarily stumble off to bed, then later she realizes that she actually wasn't in a condition to give consent, even though she may have appeared to be consenting. I take rape very, very seriously, but as we've seen in high-profile cases, many women get slammed with the notion that they've consented when they've truly been assaulted. If this case is as the friend describes, I think it's a big mistake for a woman to turn her mistake into a criminal matter.

Prudie takes rape ~very seriously~ (unless you're a drunk slut and then you were totes asking for it)

Q. Revised Story Re: One-Night Stand:

Emily, I just want to offer my support for the points you made about the "victim" of this so-called rape. I know you'll get bombarded with a lot of offended armchair (and maybe even actual) advocates for rape victims, but women, taking ownership of our bodies means owning up to the responsibility of when we screw up. Two people having sex when both of their inhibitions are lowered by alcohol is NOT rape. It does tremendous harm to enforcement of rape laws when women try to escape the consequences of their actions in this way.

A: Thanks. I know this is a controversial stand, but I agree that turning a regretted one-night stand into a rape only ends up hurting women who actually are raped.

And finally, what about TEH MENZ????

Q. False Accusations: I have a real issue with the "I was so drunk I can't consent" argument, as a guy. My issue is this: A rape accusation, whether real or not, can ruin a man's life—it can ruin his professional and personal relationships among other things. Furthermore, the court of public opinion is far too quick to convict men (think Duke lacrosse team) without proof. The woman should ask herself if she really was raped or she really just drank too much, and unless she's 100% sure that she was raped, she should learn a lesson from this, not make her fellow one-night-stander into a victim.

A: Another great point. No one should have to defend himself against a false accusation like this. You are right that the consequences can be disastrous.




Source Urg, I really can't. Like, really. can't.
lizzy_someone 1st-Feb-2012 05:32 am (UTC)
Furthermore, the court of public opinion is far too quick to convict men (think Duke lacrosse team) without proof.

I would laugh and laugh and laugh at this if I weren't so fucking disgusted.
kyra_neko_rei 1st-Feb-2012 06:04 am (UTC)
Right, because we ALL can name all the accused players and make sure they can't even order a Big Mac without being sneered at by everyone they come across.
lickety_split 1st-Feb-2012 05:40 am (UTC)
I have to know in advance... how bad is it?
cyranothe2nd 1st-Feb-2012 05:43 am (UTC)
SO BAD. Like, victim-blaming and what about teh poor menz...
porcelain72 1st-Feb-2012 05:43 am (UTC)
I literally grimaced in distaste at the one commenter putting the word victim in quotes.
13chapters 1st-Feb-2012 05:43 am (UTC)
TW: SEXUAL ASSAULT

DDDDDD: times a million. Shit like this is why it took me so long (and is still an ongoing process, really) to come to terms with the realization that just because I was drunk and didn't put up a fight doesn't mean I wasn't sexually assaulted.

But I guess it was my fucking fault for being drunk in the first place, right Prudie?
cyranothe2nd 1st-Feb-2012 05:51 am (UTC)
I am so sorry this happened to you. I'm sorry if this fuckery triggered you (it's triggering me like whoa!). (((Hugs if you want them)))
yeats 1st-Feb-2012 05:43 am (UTC)
what, prudie's usual breast-feeding/bottle-feeding wankbait wasn't getting the page views slate needed this week?


slate is the fucking worst. i hate myself for ever checking it, but old habits die hard.
porcelain72 1st-Feb-2012 05:46 am (UTC)
It really is terrible. Up until this my biggest annoyance with Slate is having writers on staff who would write essays on innocuous things like pie and outdoor movies, and how they're really awful and people who enjoy them are stupid and don't know any better. Typical condescending bullshit. But I don't even know WTF is up with this shit.
kyra_neko_rei 1st-Feb-2012 06:02 am (UTC)
Why don't they hire a thousand cockroaches and three pigeons to shit on pieces of paper, run it through a handwriting-to-text app to translate it into letters, run THAT through a spell-checker to replace the gibberish with whatever words come up in the suggestion box, and then BabelFish it through at least six languages with vastly different grammatical structures before going back to English?

It would suck far less, and do so without perpetuating rape culture.
cyranothe2nd 1st-Feb-2012 06:02 pm (UTC)
*giggle* THANK YOU for making this thread bearable with this comment!
obscure_abyss 1st-Feb-2012 06:14 am (UTC)
Oh god, the comments...
paksenarrion2 4th-Feb-2012 06:19 am (UTC)
I read the first page and then had to close it before I lost my dinner.
avashida 1st-Feb-2012 06:18 am (UTC)
I'm not going to go into the utter FAIL in this thing, because I think everyone here gets it. I just have a question: one of the questioners mentioned the scenario where BOTH parties are falling-down drunk. What is the general opinion on this? Because honestly I don't think you can call it rape then, unless both parties were raped by each other?

I'm not sure how it works.

Also, while I think it is just repugnunt and obviously morally wrong to take a drunk woman (or man, for that matter) home with you - it's just easier to NOT take them home, isn't it, rather than risk the fact that they are so intoxicated they don't know what they're doing? - I also think that people in general do not really consider these things when they consider drinking. I mean - no, it is absaloutely NOT your fault for getting drunk and ending up in someone's bed, that must be unbelievably awful and I would love to know how anyone thinks taking home someone that drunk is okay. In an ideal world we would be able to trust strangers enough to not hurt us even while we're drunk.

It's just - I'm an 18 year old who doesn't drink and never has, and I've seen plenty of my peers get falling-down drunk. I would be enraged if anyone ever took advantage of them, but I also think that maybe they would be safer if they drank a bit less. Just typing this makes me feel so sad, because I am a staunch advocate of 'the world is the one who needs to change, not us' with regards these things, because it IS awful that we are at risk when we are that drunk, just like we are at risk walking down a dark street on our own. We shouldn't be. That is not the world should work, but until that's fixed we should be careful, right?

Part of fixing the world includes taking these guys (or women, if the drunk party is a guy) to court if they DO date-rape, just like we take them to court if they attack us on a dark street. I'm advocating caution, not letting them get away with it. Just to be clear.
anolinde 1st-Feb-2012 06:34 am (UTC)
I just have a question: one of the questioners mentioned the scenario where BOTH parties are falling-down drunk. What is the general opinion on this? Because honestly I don't think you can call it rape then, unless both parties were raped by each other?

I agree with this. If both parties were equally drunk and incapable of consenting, but "consented" anyway, unless you want to say they both raped each other you really can't call it rape. Then again, it's a different story if both parties were equally drunk... and one of them, say, used violence/coercion against the other.

It's just - I'm an 18 year old who doesn't drink and never has, and I've seen plenty of my peers get falling-down drunk. I would be enraged if anyone ever took advantage of them, but I also think that maybe they would be safer if they drank a bit less.

In general, drinking in moderation is always better. =)
anolinde 1st-Feb-2012 06:30 am (UTC)
My issue is this: A rape accusation, whether real or not, can ruin a man's life

Um... Are you implying that it shouldn't ruin a man's life if it's real?
jugglingeggs 1st-Feb-2012 07:23 am (UTC)
I can't believe the nonsense some people write/think. So sick of ~poor menz~~ argument.
roseofjuly 1st-Feb-2012 06:41 am (UTC)
I have seen her very intoxicated on previous occasions, to the point she doesn't remember anything the next day.

And...it's still rape?

A rape accusation, whether real or not, can ruin a man's life—it can ruin his professional and personal relationships among other things.

So don't rape people - and don't put yourself in the position where ANYTHING you do can be construed as rape. If you don't have sex with heavily intoxicated women without enthusiastic consent, and you don't coerce women into having sex with you, and you don't undress them againt their will while they're saying "no" - then you are FAR less likely of being accused of rape.

Men always holler how being accused of raping a drunk woman they don't know very well can "ruin their life." Well, how about you NOT rape with drunk women you don't know well, then?
elobelia 1st-Feb-2012 07:06 am (UTC)
And instead of blaming the women for drinking too much, if you're at risk of raping a woman after you've been drinking, DON'T DRINK. Stop telling women to stop drinking and just do it yourself.
benihime99 1st-Feb-2012 08:36 am (UTC)
It's too early, my brain can't process this fuckery without my fist hitting something.
valkeakuulas 1st-Feb-2012 11:08 am (UTC)
One of my female friends said stuff like this to me and my jaw dropped to the floor. Really showed the difference in the way we think. I might've said stuff like this ten years ago, being raised in a conservative household and completely internalized the misogyny in the society. I'm not blaming my friend for thinking the way she does, because that's the way of thinking the society feeds us women: I actually kinda envy her, because being against misogyny feels like a fight against windmills. It would be easier to be contented with the way things are now instead of being angry all the time.
kalikahuntress 1st-Feb-2012 03:14 pm (UTC)
'It would be easier to be contented with the way things are now instead of being angry all the time. '
Except these people are never really content and abuse others with their ignorance so no I can't see it being any easier.
How old is your friend, is she still a teen?
snapesgirl34 1st-Feb-2012 12:36 pm (UTC)
I don't know whether to laugh coldly, punch the fucking computer, or cry.


Fuck you Prudie, just fuck you.

Photobucket
kalikahuntress 1st-Feb-2012 03:15 pm (UTC)
The guy that wrote this a rapist himself, no other explaination.

I actually appreciate when guys like this show their true colors and then I can tell them to go fuck themselves.

**RAGE.**
wesaucereyes 1st-Feb-2012 03:21 pm (UTC)
Good to know the if you're drunk, you can't get raped meme is alive a well and keeping gals like me from realizing they were raped. Awesome job. Awesome. Job.
shepaintedfire 1st-Feb-2012 04:30 pm (UTC)
The writer is a shitty friend, period. Did they never consider that the victim may have lied about the original story out of shame? See, this is why I never open up about that shit, because I was numb for so long about it and I downplayed it SO much (I was 14, fuck) that I'm terrified to ever talk about it to my friends because "Well I thought you didn't care!"

A rape accusation, whether real or not, can ruin a man's life—it can ruin his professional and personal relationships among other things

GOOD.
erunamiryene 1st-Feb-2012 04:44 pm (UTC)
JFCCCCCCC, she's usually not this fucking bad. She's had a few answers that are absolutely and completely spot-the-fuck-on. What is this bullshit?
stevie_jane 1st-Feb-2012 07:57 pm (UTC)
Fuck off if you make excuses for men, fuck off if you ignore the context of society and how it treats women, and FUCK RIGHT OFF if you ever, ever think telling a rape victim that what happened to them didn't happen and wasn't rape.
little_rachael 3rd-Feb-2012 05:57 pm (UTC)
A rape accusation, whether real or not, can ruin a man's life—it can ruin his professional and personal relationships among other things.

WHAT IS THIS FUCKERY

And yeah, maybe she "revised" her story because she was now ready to come to terms with the fact that she'd been raped? And if a person's "knee-walking drunk," isn't that generally an indication that they're too drunk to consent? Especially if they can't remember anything the next day?

What a horrible, horrible friend the author of the first letter is.
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