ONTD Political

Scottish independence will 'end poverty', says deputy SNP leader.

10:06 am - 03/11/2012
Independence will give Scotland the powers it needs to get rid of poverty and deprivation, deputy SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon will say later.

Scotland's deputy first minister will attack "heartless" UK government welfare reforms at her party's spring conference, in Glasgow.

She will say the changes are punishing the elderly and vulnerable.

Ms Sturgeon will seek to contrast the policy with an SNP vision to get people off benefits for the "right reasons".

The Westminster government says its UK-wide welfare reforms will save billions of pounds, by replacing disability living allowance with a personal independence payment and bringing in a single, universal credit.

But the SNP says the move will hit some of the people most in need of help.

"Only independence will put a stop to heartless Tory welfare reforms that punish the vulnerable and the disabled.

"And only independence will give us the powers we need to rid Scotland of the poverty and deprivation that still scars our nation."

Ms Sturgeon will also use her speech to announce more support for carers.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-17328681

OP: The vote is going to be in late 2014. This is one long campaign! Hopefully it won't get too bitter and the fact will be the important thing.
koken23 11th-Mar-2012 10:42 am (UTC)
As much as I agree that the proposed benefit cuts are problematic...saying you can end poverty in Scotland altogether?

That's a big call. Who will you handball to once the problems start popping up?
hinoema 11th-Mar-2012 12:11 pm (UTC)
Well, if they can get the Sodoff Trump Wind Farm going, that will definitely help as well.
ruby_chalice 11th-Mar-2012 12:44 pm (UTC)
I was giving voting for Independence some serious thought. Until I saw the recent pictures of Salmond cosying up to Murdoch - immediately followed by 'The Sun' running a headline editorial that whole-heartedly endorsed Salmond. Does the man think the Scottish electorate are fucking stupid? Who the hell schmoozes a guy who's currently under criminal investigation for the most repulsive business practices and then expects to look like a viable alternative to the tossbags in Central Government.

Makes me an unhappy bunny

And the excuse that 'all the other boys have been doing it' just doesn't fly with me I'm afraid.
maclyn 11th-Mar-2012 03:55 pm (UTC)
Well tbh the problem there is conflating independence with the SNP. They might be the only big pro-indy party right now but if we're independent they're not just going to rule Scotland as a dictatorship. Frankly I don't get too exercised about having a media relationship with individually dodgy businesses because I'm a socialist, and I don't really buy into ethical capitalism.

What I am bothered by is Labour et al saying "*gasp* MURDOCH!" and treating Scottish people like they have absolutely no memory of the way Labour, Lib Dems, Tories have carried out their affairs over the years.

I don't like the SNP but I still want independence.
mephisto5 11th-Mar-2012 05:22 pm (UTC)
Er, for all our other failings, Lib Dems have never, to my knowledge, had any dealings with Murdoch et al.
ruby_chalice 11th-Mar-2012 06:43 pm (UTC)
First time ever I voted Lib Dems last election.

I'll never forgive myself.

mephisto5 11th-Mar-2012 06:48 pm (UTC)
*shrug* I don't blame you. In some cases we've failed on policy, in others our policy has been fine but we've failed at communicating it. My point isn't whether or not you should vote Lib Dem, just that as far as we know we haven't ever had any dealings with the Murdoch empire.
ruby_chalice 11th-Mar-2012 06:45 pm (UTC)
I don't like the SNP but I still want independence.

Unfortunately we won't get one without the other. Maybe if we got the SNP without Alex Salmond I'd feel more confident.
radiantsoul 11th-Mar-2012 03:58 pm (UTC)
Scotland receives net transfer from the rest of the UK, so I am not sure how independence will help it to remove poverty. The government will have to do more with less.
mephisto5 11th-Mar-2012 06:15 pm (UTC)
Eh, that really depends how the North sea oil and gas reserves get carved up. As far as I'm aware it's pretty even.

I guess an independant Scotland would lose the investment that comes with having so many military bases there, but I'm not sure that's large enough to make much of a difference.

What would be amusing though is that I think EU members have to charge EU member-state students the same amount for university as home students- so instead of English students having to pay 9k a year or so to go to university in Scotland, like they do now, in theory they could go for free. Not sure how that'd square with continuing to offer free tuition as the ratio of English to Scottish students in the UK is roughly 10:1...
mephisto5 11th-Mar-2012 07:28 pm (UTC)
Well that's some entirely unamusing, hypocritical bollocks. I can see why countries would want to try and have a measure of control over how many home vs foreign students they admit, but they really should have thought of that when signing up to the whole 'free movement' thing instead of doing a blatent cop-out later.
mephisto5 11th-Mar-2012 08:16 pm (UTC)
I don't know, surely the better course would be for Belgium and Austria to invest more in their education systems so that their students don't lose out to German/French Uni rejects, rather than engaging in what's basically protectionism.
mephisto5 11th-Mar-2012 08:49 pm (UTC)
True, those two really shouldn't be expecting others to pick up their slack.

I'm glad they're temporary, probably because I'm knee-jerk anti-nationalist, and I hope they're not extended. The free movement in the Schengen area is a welcome rollback of increasingly controlling national governments and it's a shame that France and Italy in particular are trying to duck out of it.
mephisto5 11th-Mar-2012 09:04 pm (UTC)
Yeah, but I just can't with France's special brand of arseholery towards Romani people. I mean, no EU state has ever been ok on this (understatement of the fucking century), but calling for setting up internment camps? Have we learnt fucking nothing from the past century?
mephisto5 11th-Mar-2012 09:18 pm (UTC)
....fuck's sake.

layweed 11th-Mar-2012 05:16 pm (UTC)
That's kind of an optimistic view. Granted, I know zip about Scotland's government or economy or the UK's, but that's an optimistic view.
apostle_of_eris 'end poverty'12th-Mar-2012 07:06 pm (UTC)
Does everybody get a pony, too?
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