ONTD Political

Remember girls, having sex makes you nothing but "dirty water".

12:02 pm - 04/23/2012
SOURCE - By Amy Bounds Daily Camera Staff Writer - Posted: 04/17/2012 08:31:23 PM MDT

A Boulder mother says she's concerned that a Boulder Valley School District abstinence presenter is sending girls the wrong message, equating sexual activity with being dirty.

Laura Binegar said she became concerned after her daughter detailed a recent presentation on abstinence given in her health education class at Southern Hills Middle School. Her daughter described an activity where students spit food into water glasses, then were asked if they would rather drink from a clean glass or a dirty one.

"I trusted the school," Binegar said. "They're telling teenage girls that they're dirty and bad. It sounds like it was just awful. I don't understand what the message was."

The presenter, Brad Seng, said the student appears to have misconstrued the talk.

"One of the first things I say is that it's not that sex is bad or is a dirty activity to be engaging in," he said. "That's not it at all. It's about encouraging young people to make healthy lifestyle decisions. Our method is grounded in truth and non-judgmental."

He said he provides information on sexually transmitted diseases from the Centers for Disease Control, as well as information on "the emotional strife when children choose to be sexually active."

The water glass activity, he said, is a way to engage students. He said students drink the water while eating a snack and mixing some of their snack in the water. Then they exchange glasses. He asks them to drink the water, prompting students to say, "No, it looks nasty."

"It's a way to show them that, if they decide to be sexually active outside of a long-term committed relationship, they're putting themselves at risk," he said.

Seng is the abstinence educator for Boulder's Real Choices Pregnancy Care Center. The center describes itself as "a Christian, nonprofit, non-political organization that helps clients find constructive alternatives to abortion."

Seng said he's spoken to classes at Southern Hills for five years. There haven't been any other complaints about his presentations, according to the school principal and the school district.

Along with presenting in Boulder Valley schools, Seng also has talked at the University of Colorado, Colorado State University and private, religious schools.

Altogether, there are 33 approved organizations on the district's health education presenter list. Teachers choose presenters to augment the curriculum, which takes a comprehensive approach to sex education that includes information about abstinence and contraception. Presenters do not charge a fee.

Binegar said inviting a speaker from a Christian organization violates the separation of church and state.

"It's very clear that he's pushing Christ," she said.

But Seng said he understands the boundaries and doesn't bring religion into his talks at public schools.

Binegar took her concerns to Southern Hills Principal Terry Gillach, saying she was told that Seng is a "great guy" and the school would continue to use him as a speaker.

Gillach said he only saw a small part of the presentation but, based on the teacher's description, it was "completely innocuous."

"He never talks about religion," Gillach said. "He talks about abstinence with kids. It's one method of the many other options students have."

The mother of an eighth-grader at Lyons Middle/Senior High School also recently complained about a similar abstinence presentation. The mother said that presenters affiliated with a faith-based nonprofit, Longmont's Life Choices, are teaching a slanted view of reproductive health in her son's health class


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In before someone says parents should have to teach their own kids sex ed (when they themselves might be lacking medical facts) as opposed to 'sex philosophy' (which might be equally skewed) and "But he didn't mention Christ, so it isn't a religious message!


(Ack! Edited for HTML fail. Sorry!)

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randomtasks 23rd-Apr-2012 04:47 pm (UTC)
Ugh. Reminds me of my middle school sex ed where they took all of the girls and gave them a flower. They made use pluck the petals one by one and the sex ed teacher said "See girls every time you have sex, you lose a petal. In the end if you continue to have sex, you wont be a beautiful flower anymore."
doverz 23rd-Apr-2012 04:51 pm (UTC)
Wow.
batty_gal 23rd-Apr-2012 04:49 pm (UTC)
Innocuous my ass, the message is clear: girls are somehow tainted if they have sex.

Seng is the abstinence educator for Boulder's Real Choices Pregnancy Care Center. The center describes itself as "a Christian, nonprofit, non-political organization that helps clients find constructive alternatives to abortion."

Non-political my ass, out of all ways to choose a sex educator, they had to choose one from an anti-abortion place? Then again, I don't expect much considering it's that stupid-ass abstinence "education".


mutive 23rd-Apr-2012 04:51 pm (UTC)
Wouldn't the better message be to have people spit in the cups, run them through the dishwasher and ask if people would share? To the best of my knowledge, most people still shower sometime between partners. (Unless they're into group sex.)
iolarah 23rd-Apr-2012 11:12 pm (UTC)
Much better analogy. Way more accurate.
doverz 23rd-Apr-2012 04:52 pm (UTC)
The analogy does not make sense to me at all as a way to not make girls feel dirty for having sex.
qara_isuke 23rd-Apr-2012 04:56 pm (UTC)
Ah, and the slut-shaming continues.

Don't you know if you have sex with more than one person you're a dirty whore? I really cannot see what other message they were attempting to send, besides "if you have sex with more than one person, you are dirty and gross".

Nevermind that abstinence-only sexual education DOES NOT WORK. Evidence shows that abstinence-only programs are linked to higher rates of teen pregnancy and STD infection, since it fails to teach teens how to make SMART decisions.
kyra_neko_rei 23rd-Apr-2012 10:16 pm (UTC)
Hell, not even with more than one person. Even with the same person more than once, that analogy would be pretty icky. Most people don't care to drink out of something they themselves have spat in.
igglepoof 23rd-Apr-2012 04:57 pm (UTC)
My former science teacher had a better method. She had us do a demonstration involving HIV by giving us cups of water. Some had a clear chemical that changes colors when you add another chemical to it. Boys and girls participated, we used eye droppers to put a little water from our cup someone else's and vice versa. We were all divided into groups and we had to exchange from 4 cups each. and of course the majority of the cups turned red.

It seems they put most of the shame on girls and not so much on the boys who are usually the ones who want it so bad.
spiffynamehere 23rd-Apr-2012 05:17 pm (UTC)
That actually sounds considerably better, especially since it even shows the increased risks depending on how many partners you/your partner have had.
igglepoof 23rd-Apr-2012 04:59 pm (UTC)
We also had a teacher that showed a video of someone give birth in Biology class and talked about sex in a purely scientific way. That is also another good method.
ladywilde80 23rd-Apr-2012 05:05 pm (UTC)
What in the flippin' fuck is this? That is disgusting. Nothing like making young women ashamed of themselves and their bodies before they are even out of high school. I don't know what is wrong with the public school system sometimes.

Sex is a natural, normal part of life and while we should always teach women to respect themselves and their bodies, they should never be made to feel ashamed of sex or themselves - yes, teach them to wait for the right partners, teach them about safe sex and self-respect but likening a woman has sex to a glass of dirty water.

I can't - gross, just gross and so very, very wrong.
kalikahuntress 23rd-Apr-2012 05:05 pm (UTC)
Uggh, no wonder there is so much shame and fear for some women when it comes to leaving an unhappy relationship. They are taught from a young age that if you have slept with a certain # of men or you sleep with more than one you are doomed. I have met so many women who were seriously concerned about not settling down and they *gasp* have already slept with six men and were afraid to leave the guy they were with because they had been with so mnay guys already.
There are so many layers and ramifications to slut-shaming, there needs to be a bigger effort to end it.
This fucking school needs to get sued.
lil_insanity 23rd-Apr-2012 06:31 pm (UTC)
Yep, I've definitely seen this attitude first hand. Ugh.
adelheide 23rd-Apr-2012 05:26 pm (UTC)
WHAT?!

Oh, man! Ohhhh, man! If that were my kid, I'd be storming the principal's office and give them a dose of righteous fury. There is no misunderstanding that message.

I don't even have kids and I'm furious!
lolahead 23rd-Apr-2012 05:36 pm (UTC)
Unfortunately, I don't think this type of program is uncommon in public high schools these days. I was a substitute teacher a few years ago and was asked to sub a health class where an outside presenter came in and gave pretty much the same sort of message to the tenth graders who were attending the class. At the time, I was single, 23 years old and sexually active, and I walked out of that program feeling like a dirty tramp...even though I had been careful, used birth control, used condoms, been tested, etc. Later on in the day I was angry at the fact that I had been exposed to such bullshit and that this was a the bullshit being spread across the teenage poulation. There's seems to be a fine line between teaching responsible sex education to teenagers and condemning sexually active young women as whores.
likeahobbit 23rd-Apr-2012 05:40 pm (UTC)
This was exactly what my school did when I was a freshman in high school. It is disgusting and infuriating and yes, definitely sends the message that people who have sex before marriage/multiple partners are 'dirty.' It made recovering from sex abuse related PTSD a year or so later that much harder. I'd hoped that they had ended the practice, but NOPE, my sister who is nine years younger than me went through the same stupid thing when *she* was a freshman.

ebay313 23rd-Apr-2012 05:45 pm (UTC)
Yeah, "once you have sex you are dirty, gross and no one is ever going to want you" certainly sounds "non-judgmental" to me. And I love that his argument was that she misconstrued what the point was, it wasn't about saying after you have sex you are dirty, it was just saying that after you have sex you are dirty.

ugh, so gross -_-
ebay313 23rd-Apr-2012 05:47 pm (UTC)
Also really grossed out by a man working for an organization called "Real Choices". Fuck you asshole.
cpsings4him 23rd-Apr-2012 06:08 pm (UTC)
Remember, girls: Sex is a filthy, disgusting thing you save for someone you love VERY much. u.u

Edited at 2012-04-23 06:09 pm (UTC)
abee 23rd-Apr-2012 11:06 pm (UTC)
Yeah, that totally makes sense. No argument from me.

O.o
beoweasel 23rd-Apr-2012 06:28 pm (UTC)
That's not it at all. It's about encouraging young people to make healthy lifestyle decisions. Our method is grounded in truth and non-judgmental.

Man, that takes some serious balls to say, "We're not being judgemental!" and at the same time, telling children, that if they have sex with more than one person, they become tainted.
roseofjuly 23rd-Apr-2012 06:45 pm (UTC)
"One of the first things I say is that it's not that sex is bad or is a dirty activity to be engaging in," he said. "That's not it at all. It's about encouraging young people to make healthy lifestyle decisions. Our method is grounded in truth and non-judgmental."

You say that to cover your own ass. But you are having students DIRTY the water and then likening sexually active teens to the water that has been spat in. How are they NOT supposed to see themselves as dirty? They aren't "misconstruing" the talk, you are backpedaling like whoa.

I also want to know where you get this "emotional strife" info from, since your STD info comes from the CDC.

And I don't think that religiously-affiliated organizations should be contracted to provide sexual education in schools, paid or not.

Edited at 2012-04-23 06:46 pm (UTC)
ladypolitik 23rd-Apr-2012 10:22 pm (UTC)
And I don't think that religiously-affiliated organizations should be contracted to provide sexual education in schools, paid or not.

Exactly. It's uproarious.

/13+ years of Catholic sex ed

/Stop laughing

Edited at 2012-04-23 10:26 pm (UTC)
eyetosky 23rd-Apr-2012 07:08 pm (UTC)
"Binegar took her concerns to Southern Hills Principal Terry Gillach, saying she was told that Seng is a 'great guy' and the school would continue to use him as a speaker.

Gillach said he only saw a small part of the presentation but, based on the teacher's description, it was 'completely innocuous.'"



.... of all the sloppy, haphazard "we go for brunch on weekends" crap...
erunamiryene 23rd-Apr-2012 07:11 pm (UTC)
Ah yes, THESE types of lessons.

"This chewed chewing gum, that's YOU if you have sex before you get married. That's how your husband will see you."

"See this pristine white rose? Now watch me dip it in black ink. See that? See how gross that is? That's you if you have sex outside of marriage."

Of course, that was in church. In school I got normal sex ed.
kyra_neko_rei 23rd-Apr-2012 10:38 pm (UTC)
That's how your husband will see you.

Time to find one who doesn't, then.

I mean, it adds even more bullshit---have sex, and you deserve for your husband to think you're crap? Gee, I wonder what effect that has on victims of domestic abuse?

(Actually I read some novel wherein this got presented to a group of Southern Baptist girls---they were told a story of a fiance who pressured his girlfriend for sex leading up to the wedding, and she gave in on the last night, and then at church he said he couldn't marry someone who trusted him enough to take him at his word had sex before marriage, and left her at the altar in front of everyone, and the girls who heard it all agreed that it was so lucky that she found out he was an asshole instead of marrying him---imagine all the trouble she saved herself.)
ladypolitik 23rd-Apr-2012 07:32 pm (UTC)
"It's a way to show them that, if they decide to be sexually active outside of a long-term committed relationship, they're putting themselves at risk," he said.

No, dumbass. The only time "putting oneself at risk" is ever a factor is when it concerned UNPROTECTED SEX.

But you dont teach those parts, do you.
kaowolfie 23rd-Apr-2012 10:00 pm (UTC)
Er, certain infections can be shared through skin contact in areas uncovered by, say, a condom... herpes and HPV specifically, I think?
redstar826 23rd-Apr-2012 08:09 pm (UTC)
everytime I read stuff like this, I feel pretty thankful that the sex ed I got as a kid in school was pretty decent. It was not perfect, and it would have been nice if they would have addressed the 'not everyone is straight!' issue, but over all I felt like what I taught was accurate and not sexist
yeats 23rd-Apr-2012 08:17 pm (UTC)
i know a lot of _people are in college, so i thought i would share this resource... if you're interested in actively working to improve sex ed (and health education more generally) in high schools, peer health exchange is a great program:

PHE recruits, selects, and trains college student volunteers to teach high school students a comprehensive health curriculum consisting of thirteen standardized health workshops on topics ranging from decision-making and sexual health to substance abuse and nutrition. Several studies demonstrate that teenagers better absorb health information when it is delivered by educators of a similar age as opposed to adult educators: 74% of PHE high school students said that having college students lead PHE workshops helped them learn about the health topics. As slightly older peers, PHE volunteers provide the benefits of peer education while also conveying the advantages of traditional instruction. They deliver health information to teenagers in a language and context that is relevant to their everyday experiences, yet they can also serve as role models, demonstrating healthy behaviors and the successful transition from high school to college.


Edited at 2012-04-23 08:17 pm (UTC)
amyura 23rd-Apr-2012 08:34 pm (UTC)
Schools need to be teaching FACTS. And they need to be respectful environments.

Man, this is making my ninth-grade sex ed class, watching the football coach put a condom on a banana, look enlightened and progressive. I guess it was. We did a compare and contrast of various contraceptives, they flat-out listed alternatives to PIV intercourse we might want to consider, and they did an exercise about gendered insults and what was wrong with them.

This was 20 years ago, BTW.
babysinclair 23rd-Apr-2012 11:01 pm (UTC)
OMG sounds like heaven tbh
ericcoleman 23rd-Apr-2012 08:58 pm (UTC)
And here I am a Standells fan
liret 23rd-Apr-2012 09:22 pm (UTC)
Everything I hear about abstinence-only sex ed makes it clear that it's based on teaching girls what they need to do in order to be desirable to men. Why is that suddenly ok because the message is 'Guys will think you're icky and not want to have sex with you if you've had sex with anyone else?'
johnjie 23rd-Apr-2012 09:41 pm (UTC)
I have always been so grateful I got scientific sex ed from grades 5 to 8, and then got the batshit Christian (because I was at a Christian high school) side only once I was in my mid-teens.

I cannot imagine the effect on me if I had only had the latter.
kyra_neko_rei 23rd-Apr-2012 10:54 pm (UTC)
I'm grateful I found a sex-explaining book from the seventies in my grandmother's things after she died. It was made for informing adults about all aspects of sex, from contraceptives and STIs to sexual orientation and BDSM and fetishes, and I read the whole thing cover to cover when I was twelve.

In hindsight, it was kind of misinformed about various aspects of homosexuality, and downright transphobic at points, and several decades out of date about contraceptive technology, but it presented sex as human and normal, and thankfully that got me past a mess from high school and church. (Ugh, I can still remember the day I learned that "adultery" didn't mean "rape." Not. Happy.)
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