ONTD Political

Why Guys Really Hate Being Called ‘Creepy’

8:43 pm - 04/23/2012


The newest cause célèbre for men's right activists (MRAs) has nothing to do with divorce law, "false rape allegations", or the dangers of "sperm-stealing" feminists. It's about the C-word. No, not the ladybusiness one. We're talking about "creep."

As Jessica Wakeman discovered last week when she wrote about a first date gone wrong, the MRAs are up in arms about "creep-shaming." "The ability to label men as ‘creepy' is just one privilege that women enjoy, and a constant source of fear of ostracizing that all men must fear in our society," says one apparently anguished man on Reddit. Creep is "the worst casual insult that can be tossed at a guy" claims Jeremy Paul Gordon at the Hairpin. "Douchebag," "asshole," and "pussy" can't compare, Gordon insists, largely because the charge of "creep" is so much more difficult to disprove. These guys argue that "creep" has a greater power to wound than any other word, and yet it's tossed around with cavalier impunity by cruel women who ought to know better. Thus the campaign (particularly big on Tumblr, apparently) to bring awareness to the ongoing tragedy of creep-shaming.


The word creep has a long history, first as a verb and only much later as a noun. Dickens gets credit for first using "the creeps" in its modern sense in 1849, but the use of the word to refer to someone disgusting or frightening is, surprisingly, less than 100 years old. (Interestingly, while the term "creeper" today is a hipper synonym for a creepy person, its use as a noun is actually much older, dating to the 17th century, when it referred to a stealthy thief.) As an adjective, it shows up regularly in headlines here on Jezebel, most recently in coverage of the dating-spreadsheet finance guy.

Wakeman isn't the only female writer to wrestle with the politics of creep-shaming. Clarisse Thorn has suggested that the use of the word "demonizes men who are honest about their sexual needs," while Amanda Marcotte argues that "creepy" is a "useful, commonly understood term for a set of behaviors that absolutely are a problem." At the Good Men Project, Lu Fong noted that while in her mind, "the weight of the word was never heavier than any other insult I'd shoot back at the boys," she accepted that men found it exponentially more hurtful.

One reason men despise the word "creep" so much more than any other insult is that it isn't rooted in misogyny. Jeremy Paul Gordon specifically compared the term to "pussy," "douchebag," and "asshole." The first two words, when directed at a man, insult him by comparing him either to a vagina or a device used to clean one; their pejorative power lies in the way they feminize the guy who gets called one of these names. "Asshole," as the historian Rictor Norton has suggested, is rooted in a derogatory term for men who allowed themselves to be anally fucked. A man who gets penetrated behaves like a woman and is labeled as feminine — a fate that we raise small American boys to fear more than almost anything else. (This is why, of course, words like "bitch" or "pussy" when used by one man to another, are so much more likelier to lead to blows than "dick" or "prick." Men are unlikely to be enraged by references to their own anatomy, only to a woman's.)

So if fear of the feminine is what gives male insults their power, why then is "creep" worse than "pussy?" The answer is that creep is the only insult that instantly centers women's perceptions. To call a man a "pussy" is to make a comment about how his behavior appears; to call him "creepy" is to name how he makes women feel. If a man wants to disprove that he's a "pussy," all he has to do is act with sufficient macho swagger or courage to make the insult obviously inappropriate. But trying to disprove "creepy" involves trying to talk a woman out of an instinctual response to a potential threat, a much more difficult thing to do. Most men recognize (or eventually learn) that the harder they try to deny their creepiness, the creepier they appear.

At the heart of the "anti-creep shaming campaign" is a concerted effort to discourage women from relying on their instincts to protect themselves from harm. Laying aside its likely etymology, calling a dude an "asshole" is a way of labeling him a jerk. Plenty of people can be jerks without being predatory. On the other hand, calling a dude "creepy" labels him as a potential threat; a creep may not be imminently violent, but there's almost always a sense that he shows consistent disregard for a woman's physical or psychological space. This is why, as Wakeman wrote, "it's a really freaking dangerous idea to twist a woman's open, honest communication about her boundaries/expectations into ‘creep shaming' that victimizes men."

Though the word may be occasionally used unfairly (for example, to describe a physically unattractive guy's genuinely respectful attempt at striking up a conversation), "creepy" serves a vital function. No other word is as effective as describing when a man has crossed a woman's boundary; no other word forces a man to reflect on how his behavior makes other people feel. A guy can disprove accusations of being weak by displaying strength (often in foolish ways.) But a guy can only disprove the charge of creepiness by fundamentally altering his behavior to be more genuinely respectful of women.

This, of course, is why some guys hate the word so much; it forces men to reflect carefully about how they make women feel. No wonder then that so many guys are campaigning against "creep-shaming." After all, the sooner the term becomes socially unacceptable, the sooner men can get back to not having to think about women's boundaries


Source: Jezebel
omg, no men's right's tag? what a tragedy.
I really hate when people complain about being called creepy. Spend your time thinking about what you did that made that person uncomfortable instead of making it all about you, jfc.

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lomesir22 24th-Apr-2012 01:52 am (UTC)
Oh
lickety_split 24th-Apr-2012 01:54 am (UTC)
I've noticed that the same people who carry on about Men's Rights are also the same types who have prepared monologues about Black Privilege, just sayin'.
foureyedgirl 24th-Apr-2012 04:19 am (UTC)
black privilege?! wtf..not at you of course..just perplexed that's even a 'thing'..
jamethiel_bane 24th-Apr-2012 01:54 am (UTC)
Anecdata time!

OH MY GOD. I had a guy message me on OK Cupid recently saying that he didn't define himself as "sleazy" but rather as "creepy" and talking about game playing, with some random stuff thrown in to make himself seem ~mysterious~. I responded back with "Sorry, not interested, I'm straight-forward to the point of being blunt and despise game-playing in all forms."

I was all WHO THINKS THIS IS A GOOD THING?!?!

It feels like we're failing as a society, if we're not teaching people that NO is final and the only thing you can do if someone says you're being creepy is to say "I'm really sorry, it was unintentional." and then walk away. Why is any attempt by women to set boundaries constantly met with "That's a bad thing to do"
thelilyqueen 24th-Apr-2012 02:10 am (UTC)
Because of what Twisty of the blog I Blame The Patriarchy terms the 'Global Accords Governing the Fair Use of Women'.

There is, to my mind, no more natural instinct for animals (including humans) than self-defense - indirect methods like fleeing a potential danger included just as much as fighting. Women, however, are supposed to repress or ignore that because we might be seen as 'rude' or 'make someone uncomfortable'. And, we're assured, if we are attacked after asserting ourselves our assailant will be extra angry and nasty to us.

Of course, if we don't assert ourselves, we gave off mixed messages and you KNOW men just aren't good at all that. It's our fault, always.

Ugh.

emeraldus 24th-Apr-2012 01:57 am (UTC)
"Use of the word demonizes men who are honest about their sexual needs"--there's a world of difference between "honest" and the kind of damn aggressiveness that gets these men labeled as creepy.
kyra_neko_rei 24th-Apr-2012 04:11 am (UTC)
LOL, needs. As if it's her duty to put out for every jackass who happens by because he needs it.

No, shitheads. Your erection is not attempted murder by the local pussy-having individuals that you're defending yourself against by repulsive dick-thrusting. STFU and go away.

And, yeah. Having desires? Not creepy. Acting like it's a nearby woman's duty to put out so you can satisfy them? Creepy. Full stop.

Don't like being "demonized" for having desires? Stop making them her problem.
girly123 24th-Apr-2012 01:58 am (UTC)
Jesus fuck I hate Jezebel's articles.

"Asshole," as the historian Rictor Norton has suggested, is rooted in a derogatory term for men who allowed themselves to be anally fucked. A man who gets penetrated behaves like a woman and is labeled as feminine — a fate that we raise small American boys to fear more than almost anything else."

The part about "asshole" relating to gay male sex is reaching, at best, and the conflation of homophobia with sexism is incredibly fucking annoying. There are good points in this article that are compromised by stupid-ass reasoning like this.

That said, Tumblr was on this a while ago, and it was kind of hilarious watching creepy internet dudes trying so, so hard to defend the idea that they shouldn't be called out for being unsociable troglodytes.
smittenlotus 24th-Apr-2012 02:13 am (UTC)
All of this. How could anyone fall for this "nice guys finish last" baloney?

"Honest about their sexual needs" my ass. There is such a thing as being too honest. "Creepy" isn't a term most women just throw around; at least where I live guys have to royally suck at their flirting attempts to be labeled that. I can say for certain no one throws around "asshole" thinking it has anything to do with homosexual undertones. Give me a fucking break.
spicytoys 24th-Apr-2012 02:01 am (UTC)
Those poor men, having to deal with how they make women feel! What an awful experience to have to go through! We must put a stop to this behavior! *eyeroll*
rinygrin 24th-Apr-2012 02:02 am (UTC)
"A guy can disprove accusations of being weak by displaying strength (often in foolish ways.) But a guy can only disprove the charge of creepiness by fundamentally altering his behavior to be more genuinely respectful of women."

I hate that this is made into such a demanding request to show basic compassion and sincerity. These dudebros need to grow the fuck up.

Edited at 2012-04-24 02:03 am (UTC)
violetrose 24th-Apr-2012 02:04 am (UTC)
It's so childish.

How dare you make me be considerate of others, it's not fair!
castalianspring 24th-Apr-2012 02:04 am (UTC)
madman101 24th-Apr-2012 03:10 am (UTC)
This reminded me of that GREAT "girl power" commercial for some drink or something - where these guys upset one girl, and so her female friend goes running after them, long long distance...

& when she finally gets to them, she just gives them THIS LOOK - ha ha - I love it...
mastadge 24th-Apr-2012 02:06 am (UTC)
If more men autocreepshamed we'd have less to "worry" about. Goodness. Fellow men: before you say or do something to or around another person, think: "Is this creepy?" (This may seem labor-intensive at first, but it is quickly internalized.) If the answer is yes or maybe, think a little more about whether you really want to do it. If you do something and someone else informs you that you're creepy or being a creep, back off and consider why they would think that, especially if you're not immediately sure what it was that made them feel that way. Seriously. If being called a creep hurts so much, then take a few simple steps to stop being a creep.
kyra_neko_rei 24th-Apr-2012 04:28 am (UTC)
My usual recommendation with regard to approaching women they don't know is "how would I feel saying this to another man?" and then "why would I feel this way?"

Because treating men like human beings is second nature to practically all men. Starting a conversation with a man generally involves things like having something relevant to say that's not "nice ass" or "what's your number." None of the guys complaining about being called creepy makes his male friends by saying even "you look interesting, what's your number?" or by pestering them after they've tried to go away.

So if the answers are "no!" and "because it'd be rude beyond belief"/"I'd sound like a predatory gay dude!" . . . probably don't say it to her instead.
youngbridge 24th-Apr-2012 02:12 am (UTC)
I just finished watching a video of Bill Maher talking about feminism on youtube. I'm still trying to cool off from that bullshit. So, it was probably a bad idea for me to read this post.

I just have this attraction to reading/watching things that I know are going to annoy me/piss me off.

So, now I'm probably gonna go google "men's rights activism."

*sighs*
homasse 24th-Apr-2012 02:20 am (UTC)
So, now I'm probably gonna go google "men's rights activism."

Don't do it.
homasse 24th-Apr-2012 02:20 am (UTC)
I reserve the right to call men who openly stare at my boobs, who try and feel me up on trains, who think I'm a prostitute and try to accost me when I'm just walking to acapella rehearsal, who think "You're sexier than my ex-wife!" is a good pick-up line, or who in general give me the ick feeling because of how they look at me "creeps."

Don't wanna be labeled a creep? Don't be a creeper. BOOM!
running_jumping 24th-Apr-2012 02:27 am (UTC)
I'm new to this community. That being said, I have an opinion.

I feel like a lot of women use the term 'creepy' to describe someone who is attracted to them that they don't like. Kind of like how a man might describe a woman who is attracted to him as 'crazy' because he isn't interested. Real creeps exist, but the term is over-used.
violetrose 24th-Apr-2012 02:31 am (UTC)
Are you a guy?
kittymink 24th-Apr-2012 02:40 am (UTC)
lolololol poor menz!
evilgmbethy 24th-Apr-2012 03:26 am (UTC)
lol, your comment basically sums up my reaction to this article
justspaz 24th-Apr-2012 02:50 am (UTC)
Speaking of 'men's rights activists' (puked a bit in my mouth, figuratively), there is this guy in my hall at school and he posts tons of the shit on his fb. I just want to assemble an army of feminists to take him on in a logic fight, but then I remember I really can't find it in myself to give a shit about fb statuses in general. Besides, he'd get nothing out of it except more (incorrect, reaching, delusional) fuel for his theories. Blah.
recorded 24th-Apr-2012 03:32 am (UTC)
Men's Rights Activists are lost causes. They're always the most misogynist people on earth. Of course, there are legitimate MR issues, but they are never focused on in MR communities.
agatharuncible 24th-Apr-2012 02:54 am (UTC)
you know what makes me uncomfortable? the idea that if I feel disturbed that a man has overstepped the boundaries I have established and call him a "creep" that some people will think I'm ~creep-shaming~. so what if I am? there's a real difference between shaming people for things they can't help or characteristics that are harmless to others or things that were done to them, and "shaming" them because they're doing things that can be harmful or at least uncomfortable to other human beings.

if you're a man and don't want to be considered "creepy", then don't make people uncomfortable and pay attention to what they're saying. if you come across as such then talk to them and apologize and see where you went wrong before assuming that they're just doing it to shame you for no real reason. and noticing whether you're being labelled that for a reason or why men around you get that label might help you avoid the kind of entitled, disturbing behaviour that usually warrants that.

/rant
bestdaywelived 24th-Apr-2012 02:44 pm (UTC)
Seriously, the word "shaming" has no meaning anymore.
lonely_hour 24th-Apr-2012 03:03 am (UTC)
"Clarisse Thorn has suggested that the use of the word "demonizes men who are honest about their sexual needs"

I don't see why not -when women become the OBJECT to which those needs are directed and seen as need satisfaction. Women -and everyone else- should have the right to assert their agency against the fantasies of other people's sexual needs.

Plus this quote:

"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them." ~ Margaret Atwood
spiffynamehere 24th-Apr-2012 03:11 am (UTC)
Thank you, Margaret Atwood! ♥
spiffynamehere 24th-Apr-2012 03:11 am (UTC)
I can't even figure out what to say about this, except that I have absolutely zero qualms about calling men creeps when that's what they're being.

Also, now I have the urge to listen to The Lonely Island's "The Creep".
brookiki 24th-Apr-2012 03:29 am (UTC)
Reading this post and some of the comments has actually managed to give me the same feeling that I get when some creepy guy corners me out of the blue.
eveofrevolution 24th-Apr-2012 03:13 am (UTC)
"Spend your time thinking about what you did that made that person uncomfortable instead of making it all about you, jfc."

SO MUCH THIS. Not just about being creepy, but in EVERY criticism I might have of someone. My ex was TERRIBLE about this. I would call him out for saying something insensitive, and he would start saying shit like "you're too sensitive" and "I was just kidding" and "why are you criticizing me so much? You're making me feel like a terrible person"

/rant
roguebelle 24th-Apr-2012 04:05 pm (UTC)
Guh. My major ex was terrible about this, too. I couldn't bring up anything that might need working on in the relationships without hearing how unfair I was being, how immature my emotional response to his behaviour was, how invalid my feelings were, and didn't I understand how much he loved me? Didn't I just know, even if he wasn't demonstrating it? And couldn't I empathise with what he'd been through in the past? His ex was, by his report and somewhat confirmed by mutual friends, pretty awful in a lot of ways, and I did empathise with that, but just because our relationship was better by comparison did not mean it was perfect or didn't need work. He so could not understand that, and his way of dealing with it was by totally shutting me down. He never, ever admitted that he was actually doing something that made me upset.

And this is the kind of crap women are conditioned to accept. I feel so humiliated that I honestly did not even realise how poorly I was being treated until after the relationship was over.

My more recent ex always took the "I didn't mean to make you feel that way" track. Well, no shit, dumbass, I didn't expect you set out with the conscious desire to be a jerk towards me. But you still were. Examine that. Don't blame me for having a natural emotional response to it.
gr_julian 24th-Apr-2012 03:16 am (UTC)
Oh hi Hugo, how's life being the SuperCreep?

You fucking racist attempted murderer you
violetrose 24th-Apr-2012 03:19 am (UTC)
This was written by him!

It all makes sense now.
san 24th-Apr-2012 03:30 am (UTC)
I think this is the perfect time to come out of my lurker-cave and use this fabulous gif (courtesy of beoweasel):

beoweasel 24th-Apr-2012 03:41 am (UTC)
You know, I was thinking of posting that.
erunamiryene 24th-Apr-2012 05:01 am (UTC)
but what about this one?? :D

gretchystretchy 24th-Apr-2012 03:42 am (UTC)
jesus fucking christ on a cracker, ughhh

Dear men: stfu.

God, why am I actively trying to find one of you people to date/sleep with, exactly?
gretchystretchy 24th-Apr-2012 03:44 am (UTC)
ALSO:



beoweasel 24th-Apr-2012 05:17 am (UTC)
Man, I fucking love that top gif. -Sparkle eyes-
recorded 24th-Apr-2012 03:44 am (UTC)
Man the trolls all up in this post are the reason my boyfren has to pretend to care about livejournal to get accepted to this community.

violetrose 24th-Apr-2012 03:47 am (UTC)
To be fair, I think only one of them is a troll.
astridmyrna 24th-Apr-2012 03:48 am (UTC)
If creep-shaming is wrong, then I don't want to be right. I've met many-a creeper and have no problem shaming them for their creepy ways by telling them to "go away, creep."
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