ONTD Political

Why Guys Really Hate Being Called ‘Creepy’

8:43 pm - 04/23/2012


The newest cause célèbre for men's right activists (MRAs) has nothing to do with divorce law, "false rape allegations", or the dangers of "sperm-stealing" feminists. It's about the C-word. No, not the ladybusiness one. We're talking about "creep."

As Jessica Wakeman discovered last week when she wrote about a first date gone wrong, the MRAs are up in arms about "creep-shaming." "The ability to label men as ‘creepy' is just one privilege that women enjoy, and a constant source of fear of ostracizing that all men must fear in our society," says one apparently anguished man on Reddit. Creep is "the worst casual insult that can be tossed at a guy" claims Jeremy Paul Gordon at the Hairpin. "Douchebag," "asshole," and "pussy" can't compare, Gordon insists, largely because the charge of "creep" is so much more difficult to disprove. These guys argue that "creep" has a greater power to wound than any other word, and yet it's tossed around with cavalier impunity by cruel women who ought to know better. Thus the campaign (particularly big on Tumblr, apparently) to bring awareness to the ongoing tragedy of creep-shaming.


The word creep has a long history, first as a verb and only much later as a noun. Dickens gets credit for first using "the creeps" in its modern sense in 1849, but the use of the word to refer to someone disgusting or frightening is, surprisingly, less than 100 years old. (Interestingly, while the term "creeper" today is a hipper synonym for a creepy person, its use as a noun is actually much older, dating to the 17th century, when it referred to a stealthy thief.) As an adjective, it shows up regularly in headlines here on Jezebel, most recently in coverage of the dating-spreadsheet finance guy.

Wakeman isn't the only female writer to wrestle with the politics of creep-shaming. Clarisse Thorn has suggested that the use of the word "demonizes men who are honest about their sexual needs," while Amanda Marcotte argues that "creepy" is a "useful, commonly understood term for a set of behaviors that absolutely are a problem." At the Good Men Project, Lu Fong noted that while in her mind, "the weight of the word was never heavier than any other insult I'd shoot back at the boys," she accepted that men found it exponentially more hurtful.

One reason men despise the word "creep" so much more than any other insult is that it isn't rooted in misogyny. Jeremy Paul Gordon specifically compared the term to "pussy," "douchebag," and "asshole." The first two words, when directed at a man, insult him by comparing him either to a vagina or a device used to clean one; their pejorative power lies in the way they feminize the guy who gets called one of these names. "Asshole," as the historian Rictor Norton has suggested, is rooted in a derogatory term for men who allowed themselves to be anally fucked. A man who gets penetrated behaves like a woman and is labeled as feminine — a fate that we raise small American boys to fear more than almost anything else. (This is why, of course, words like "bitch" or "pussy" when used by one man to another, are so much more likelier to lead to blows than "dick" or "prick." Men are unlikely to be enraged by references to their own anatomy, only to a woman's.)

So if fear of the feminine is what gives male insults their power, why then is "creep" worse than "pussy?" The answer is that creep is the only insult that instantly centers women's perceptions. To call a man a "pussy" is to make a comment about how his behavior appears; to call him "creepy" is to name how he makes women feel. If a man wants to disprove that he's a "pussy," all he has to do is act with sufficient macho swagger or courage to make the insult obviously inappropriate. But trying to disprove "creepy" involves trying to talk a woman out of an instinctual response to a potential threat, a much more difficult thing to do. Most men recognize (or eventually learn) that the harder they try to deny their creepiness, the creepier they appear.

At the heart of the "anti-creep shaming campaign" is a concerted effort to discourage women from relying on their instincts to protect themselves from harm. Laying aside its likely etymology, calling a dude an "asshole" is a way of labeling him a jerk. Plenty of people can be jerks without being predatory. On the other hand, calling a dude "creepy" labels him as a potential threat; a creep may not be imminently violent, but there's almost always a sense that he shows consistent disregard for a woman's physical or psychological space. This is why, as Wakeman wrote, "it's a really freaking dangerous idea to twist a woman's open, honest communication about her boundaries/expectations into ‘creep shaming' that victimizes men."

Though the word may be occasionally used unfairly (for example, to describe a physically unattractive guy's genuinely respectful attempt at striking up a conversation), "creepy" serves a vital function. No other word is as effective as describing when a man has crossed a woman's boundary; no other word forces a man to reflect on how his behavior makes other people feel. A guy can disprove accusations of being weak by displaying strength (often in foolish ways.) But a guy can only disprove the charge of creepiness by fundamentally altering his behavior to be more genuinely respectful of women.

This, of course, is why some guys hate the word so much; it forces men to reflect carefully about how they make women feel. No wonder then that so many guys are campaigning against "creep-shaming." After all, the sooner the term becomes socially unacceptable, the sooner men can get back to not having to think about women's boundaries


Source: Jezebel
omg, no men's right's tag? what a tragedy.
I really hate when people complain about being called creepy. Spend your time thinking about what you did that made that person uncomfortable instead of making it all about you, jfc.

jamethiel_bane 24th-Apr-2012 01:54 am (UTC)
Anecdata time!

OH MY GOD. I had a guy message me on OK Cupid recently saying that he didn't define himself as "sleazy" but rather as "creepy" and talking about game playing, with some random stuff thrown in to make himself seem ~mysterious~. I responded back with "Sorry, not interested, I'm straight-forward to the point of being blunt and despise game-playing in all forms."

I was all WHO THINKS THIS IS A GOOD THING?!?!

It feels like we're failing as a society, if we're not teaching people that NO is final and the only thing you can do if someone says you're being creepy is to say "I'm really sorry, it was unintentional." and then walk away. Why is any attempt by women to set boundaries constantly met with "That's a bad thing to do"
thelilyqueen 24th-Apr-2012 02:10 am (UTC)
Because of what Twisty of the blog I Blame The Patriarchy terms the 'Global Accords Governing the Fair Use of Women'.

There is, to my mind, no more natural instinct for animals (including humans) than self-defense - indirect methods like fleeing a potential danger included just as much as fighting. Women, however, are supposed to repress or ignore that because we might be seen as 'rude' or 'make someone uncomfortable'. And, we're assured, if we are attacked after asserting ourselves our assailant will be extra angry and nasty to us.

Of course, if we don't assert ourselves, we gave off mixed messages and you KNOW men just aren't good at all that. It's our fault, always.

Ugh.

seasight 24th-Apr-2012 03:36 am (UTC)
THIS. The repression is so ingrained that (mild trigger warning)



when a man chased me through a park at 2 AM and then dragged me down the street for about a block, all I could make myself do was to ask him very very politely to let me go, please. (He did, and I ran home).
abee 24th-Apr-2012 09:26 am (UTC)
FUCKING HELL? Oh, man *hugs!* I cannot even think how this is OK TO DO THAT, Holy hell.
roguebelle 24th-Apr-2012 02:19 pm (UTC)
Ohmygod! I'm glad you got out of it okay. Fucking hell.

I, on the other hand, have gotten so empowered lately by Internet discussions re: street harassment and other things that I almost kicked a teenager's ass last week when he followed me and my friends for two blocks, calling us bitches when we ignored him. I got right up in his face and told him to shut up, turn around, and walk away from us, or I'd call the cops. (A viable threat, considering we were less than two blocks from the police station -- and on the main street in my town, so really all I would have had to have done was scream, and we'd have gotten a response from the local residents and business owners). My friends told me to ease up, "he's just a teenager", but, y'know, a teenager who follows women down the street to harass them will turn into a man who does worse if his behaviour is condoned, so fuck that.
recorded 24th-Apr-2012 03:14 am (UTC)
That sounds like a troll/research/info fishing OKC account. Do you remember if the pictures seemed legitimate? I don't know if I'm optimistic for believing that it's not a real account or not.

I actually had a guy send me an opening message breaking down my profile with his psych degree; 'You do this because you were burned in the past, but you still hold out hope' etc etc for paragraph upon paragraph. If he wanted a date with me, trying to pretend he knew everything about someone from a snippet of profile is not the way to go about it.
jamethiel_bane 24th-Apr-2012 09:30 am (UTC)
I honestly don't know--I had a pretty visceral EWWWW reaction and pressed the block button. And then went and had a shower.

OKCupid makes me weep for the fate of humanity sometimes. But then, I'm on there, so then I feel sheepish.
recorded 24th-Apr-2012 03:56 pm (UTC)
I know how you feel. OKC is a cesspool. There are not that many good guys on there, much like in society. Entitlement to a lady without making any effort is ruining everything.

I should clarify, like the poster below I did find someone fantastic on OKC. It was easier to filter out the bad eggs quicker on OKC due to the questions, which is why I stuck it out. There is hope. It's just work, but it's a lot less work than getting with someone offline and finding out they're homophobic 6 months into the relationship instead of instantly from their questions.

Edited at 2012-04-24 05:56 pm (UTC)
danger0usbeans 24th-Apr-2012 04:51 pm (UTC)
I met my wife on OKCupid. Don't give up!
mirhanda 24th-Apr-2012 04:49 pm (UTC)
Ugh. Psychology is my field and I find that completely unethical.
recorded 24th-Apr-2012 05:36 pm (UTC)
It was really amateur though and just came off as douchey instead of accurate. He didn't pin me at all, it just sounded like a vague fortune. I have a feeling he had only taken intro to psych. I shouldn't have said 'degree' because all I remember is that he put psych under the career field.

Though, I have heard of people doing psych projects/research on OKC. It doesn't make sense to send me his profile of me.
danger0usbeans 24th-Apr-2012 04:50 pm (UTC)
I had a guy on OKC message me once to tell me that my orientation was listed wrong, and based on what I'd written in my profile he thought that I was really a lesbian and should not be "misleading" people by identifying as bisexual. And, of course, when I responded to tell him that my orientation is not up for discussion and he doesn't get to tell me what my orientation is, he called me a bitch and claimed that he was just offering "friendly advice."
recorded 24th-Apr-2012 05:31 pm (UTC)
Where do people on OKC get off? Seriously.

I know a lot of people get desperate and make a lot of random different approach techniques, but how would anyone think that is welcome?
alryssa 24th-Apr-2012 07:31 am (UTC)
Women aren't allowed to have boundaries and limits, there you go again with your logical talk

also hi again, scuse me while I join Kowalski in a huge facepalm over this entire post.
jamethiel_bane 24th-Apr-2012 09:32 am (UTC)
OH RIGHT how dare I think I should be treated like a person. THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SORT OF SENSE.

(Kowalski love!)
alryssa 25th-Apr-2012 03:39 am (UTC)
I'll just sit here with you and our mutual Due South love, because right now I've had to deal with a ton of stupid on Facebook and I CANNOT TAKE IT ANYMORE

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