I saw one post on a similar topic earlier today, but that post referred to Maryland; this one is for North Carolina and also nationally. If not kosher, let me know.
President Obama’s self-described “evolution” on same-sex marriage — from opponent to proponent — appears to be catalyzing a similar shift among some of his most loyal supporters, African-Americans. Although evidence for such a shift is preliminary — there are just a few data points and a number of caveats — Mr. Obama’s announcement may have accelerated the acceptance of gay marriage among blacks.
Support for same-sex marriage has been growing in the general population since at least the mid-1990s. That trend has been evident among blacks as well — but at a considerably slower pace. A poll conducted by Pew Research in April, just a few weeks before Mr. Obama’s announcement, found 39 percent of blacks supporting gay marriage and 49 percent opposing it. By contrast, a plurality of white Americans supported gay marriage in the Pew poll, as they have in most other recent surveys.
Since Mr. Obama declared his support for gay marriage, however, and similar pronouncements by the N.A.A.C.P, Jay-Z and Colin Powell, a handful of polls suggest that opinions in the African-American community are shifting.
An ABC News/Washington Post poll conducted May 17-20 found 59 percent of African-Americans in favor of same-sex marriage.
A Public Policy Polling survey in North Carolina, taken just after the state approved Amendment One, which prohibited both same-sex marriage and civil unions, found that black support for legalizing same-sex marriage or civil unions had increased 11 percentage points to 55 percent in favor and 39 percent against. A poll by the same group taken before Mr. Obama’s announcement — and before the voting in North Carolina — showed 44 percent of black respondents in favor of same-sex marriage or civil unions and 51 percent against.
It may also be the case that Mr. Obama’s announcement did not change minds so much as it made it easier for African-American voters to express support for same-sex marriage publicly.
A study conducted last year by Melissa R. Michelson, a professor of political science at Menlo College in California, and Brian F. Harrison of Northwestern University, “It Does Matter if You’re Black or White: Race-of-Caller Effects on Black Support for Marriage Equality,” tested whether the race of the telephone interviewer made a difference in whether an African-American respondent would express support for same-sex marriage. As the study’s title suggests, it did.
“So if it was an African-American calling an African-American, then they were much more likely to say they were a supporter of same-sex marriage,” Professor Michelson said. “We don’t think people were changing their minds, but they felt more comfortable” expressing support for same-sex marriage.
At the very least, the signs of a jump in black support for gay marriage suggest that black voters are unlikely to abandon Mr. Obama over his same-sex marriage stance, as some commentators had predicted.
“I certainly want to see several more polls. But if these kinds of early signals are being sent, then we could see a significant transformation on same-sex marriage in the African-American community,” J. Michael Bitzer, a professor of political science at Catawba College in North Carolina, said.
Source.
Signs of Shift Among African-Americans on Same-Sex Marriage
President Obama’s self-described “evolution” on same-sex marriage — from opponent to proponent — appears to be catalyzing a similar shift among some of his most loyal supporters, African-Americans. Although evidence for such a shift is preliminary — there are just a few data points and a number of caveats — Mr. Obama’s announcement may have accelerated the acceptance of gay marriage among blacks.
Support for same-sex marriage has been growing in the general population since at least the mid-1990s. That trend has been evident among blacks as well — but at a considerably slower pace. A poll conducted by Pew Research in April, just a few weeks before Mr. Obama’s announcement, found 39 percent of blacks supporting gay marriage and 49 percent opposing it. By contrast, a plurality of white Americans supported gay marriage in the Pew poll, as they have in most other recent surveys.
Since Mr. Obama declared his support for gay marriage, however, and similar pronouncements by the N.A.A.C.P, Jay-Z and Colin Powell, a handful of polls suggest that opinions in the African-American community are shifting.
An ABC News/Washington Post poll conducted May 17-20 found 59 percent of African-Americans in favor of same-sex marriage.
A Public Policy Polling survey in North Carolina, taken just after the state approved Amendment One, which prohibited both same-sex marriage and civil unions, found that black support for legalizing same-sex marriage or civil unions had increased 11 percentage points to 55 percent in favor and 39 percent against. A poll by the same group taken before Mr. Obama’s announcement — and before the voting in North Carolina — showed 44 percent of black respondents in favor of same-sex marriage or civil unions and 51 percent against.
It may also be the case that Mr. Obama’s announcement did not change minds so much as it made it easier for African-American voters to express support for same-sex marriage publicly.
A study conducted last year by Melissa R. Michelson, a professor of political science at Menlo College in California, and Brian F. Harrison of Northwestern University, “It Does Matter if You’re Black or White: Race-of-Caller Effects on Black Support for Marriage Equality,” tested whether the race of the telephone interviewer made a difference in whether an African-American respondent would express support for same-sex marriage. As the study’s title suggests, it did.
“So if it was an African-American calling an African-American, then they were much more likely to say they were a supporter of same-sex marriage,” Professor Michelson said. “We don’t think people were changing their minds, but they felt more comfortable” expressing support for same-sex marriage.
At the very least, the signs of a jump in black support for gay marriage suggest that black voters are unlikely to abandon Mr. Obama over his same-sex marriage stance, as some commentators had predicted.
“I certainly want to see several more polls. But if these kinds of early signals are being sent, then we could see a significant transformation on same-sex marriage in the African-American community,” J. Michael Bitzer, a professor of political science at Catawba College in North Carolina, said.
Source.
Wow, I find this very interesting. I had no idea. Perhaps Obama just sort of burst the bubble?
Then again, Ice-T (who worked as a pimp before becoming a rapper and then actor) wrote this lyric in 1993:
"Now I'mma write this song though the radio won't play it / But I got freedom of speech so I'mma say it / She wanna be lez, he wanna be gay / But that's your business / I'm straight, so n*gga have it your way"
I know that some of you will be offended by the "want to be" part - but remember that this was 1993. In a black gangsta rap song called "Straight Up N*gga."
This was at a time when black Southern Baptist churches were expanding, the Black Muslims were having another resurgence due to the kind of racist incarceration policies that exposed many black prisoners to Islam as preached by Malcolm X (who, if you read his autobiography, does strongly state that he believes homosexual marriage is an offense to Allah/God).
I don't know if Ice-T endorsed the idea of marriage equality. But the idea of "that's your business" was a novel one in 1993 and remains a novel one to many people even today.
The biggest threat to heterosexual marriage isn't gay marriage - hell, gay marriage might even provide a small economic boost in some states. The biggest threat to heterosexual marriage is divorce.
I've never had the feeling that Obama endorses same-sex civil unions/gay marriage personally. He's always seemed extraordinarily uncomfortable discussing the issue, which is why I'm glad Biden forgot to take his Ritalin and blurted it out, because I think he really does believe it. As someone who is bisexual and could marry a man or a woman someday, the legal endorsement is only one part of it for me.
Tolerance doesn't equal acceptance. And what the LGBT community ultimately needs - even if it takes many steps to reach it - is acceptance.
/wow hi long ramble to a comment about Jay-Z, haha
And yes, we need acceptance not tolerance. That means not just toelrating some part of us while engaging in hatred. Endorsing our right to marry doesn't change speaking hatred about us.
I pointed to Ice-T's lyrics because I do NOT believe they're homophobic. In fact, in the gangsta rap community in 1993, I think they're remarkably progressive. The concept of "wanting to" be gay is one I do not agree with and suspect maybe even he doesn't agree with nearly 20 years later, but to say something like "that's your business" about homosexuality in a rap song was unprecedented. Maybe still is - I don't know, I don't really listen to hip hop other than 2Pac these days.
(Who, by the way, did write an early song called "Keep Ya Head Up" where he rapped: "If we don't, we'll have a race of babies who hate the ladies who make the babies. And since a man can't make one, he has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one," considered a very progressive view of women in rap at the time, despite his later lyrics.)
I remember keeping my bisexuality a secret from even my closest friends in Catholic high school in FL, despite advocating for gay rights generally in my "Morality and Religion" theology class in 11th grade when that was the topic being discussed. I remember putting political buttons on my backpack endorsing pro-choice concepts and one that said "god, please save me from your followers." But I didn't dare to put one endorsing same-sex rights. Maybe if I was a junior or senior in HS now, in 2012, rather than in 1998-2000, I would have. But maybe not. Years later, when my Facebook status showed I was in a relationship with a girl, some of my friends wanted to know how long I'd known I was bisexual and why I never told them. Some wanted to know because they believed I could have been "prevented" from "acting on those thoughts."
To many, including Catholics/Christians, it's the action that is sinful. Like premarital sex generally is sinful, although I never got a FB message about "preventing" me from doing that. However, other friends went away to college and became socially liberal and truly accepting. One guy in my grade used to call me a "baby-killer" and an "abortionist" for speaking up about my pro-choice views.
Today? He works for the ACLU.
I believe people can genuinely change. But to do that, we need to work on not judging people on their beliefs or past beliefs and, when change occurs, accept that change instead of holding their past opinions against them forever.
"To many, including Catholics/Christians, it's the action that is sinful."
That's because they want to try and justify their bigotry - and it's easier to try and pretend you're judging an action rather than judging a person. It's fake and it's a self-serving lie.
Can people change? Maybe. But Most people don't and I am sceptical until I'm confident they have - nor does it erase their record and the harm they've caused. And patrt of that proof of change is acknowledging that harm and apologising for it. So no, I will VERY MUCH criticise people on bigotry they have espoused, supported and spouted - especially when it becomes part of popular media.
What we need to do is call bigotry what it is and not constantly give bigots a pass which happens constantly. It's amazing how many people cosntantly make excuses for the word f@ggot, despite it being unquestionably, undeniably one of the worst slurs out there to use against gay men - but we're constantly asked to excuse it and defend it.
I'm not defending/excusing anything. But if someone's views genuinely change, I'm also going to try to understand where they were coming from before and how their beliefs evolved. Most of the Catholic school kids I knew in FL changed after they finally left for secular schools and actually met and befriended gay people. Many of them are pro-choice now. Some who were once pro-death penalty but anti-choice based on their parents' beliefs have developed their own belief systems where they feel all life is sacred and are now against the death penalty. I can't argue with them because we're having two separate conversations and (for me) religion isn't a factor. For them, it's the only factor.
I feel like I'm agreeing with you but expressing it in a way that comes across as though I'm not?
I was just vaguely confused at the tangent. I mentioned that Jay-Z's endorsement of marriage equality didn't mean he wasnt't a homophobe and you came in talking about several different men (who had also used homophobic language). I don't make any claim for rappers or hip-hop in general, I don't know enough about it to comment.
If someone's beliefs have genuinely changed and the beliefs they held before were bigoted then the onus is on them to convinced us they have changed and, if they have publically and harmfully expressed said bigotry in the past, repudiate and, preferably, redeem those past actions.
I'm not sure if we agree or not tbh, probably the hour :). Generally my point is I don't give benefit of the doubt to straight people. They haven't earned it. And if someone has let loose bigotry then they have a hill to climb before they expunge that - and when they do it's more a matter of expunding shame than doing something praiseworthy
So when Ice-T explicitly said that the sexuality of a gay or lesbian person is not his business - on an album released in 1993, no less - I was pretty impressed. And it is also assumed that rappers are misogynistic, but 2Pac's song I mentioned is a pretty damn feminist song. And Jay-Z said he regretted his earlier songs where he called women "bitches," that he regretted the way it was part of black rap culture to do that.
[Also, you should know that I was typing on my BlackBerry so I wasn't able to see the entire screen and my thoughts tend to read far less coherently than they do in my mind when I can only see half a paragraph of text].
I don't give benefit of the doubt to straight people. They haven't earned it.
On the issue of homophobia ... or about anything? Do you mind if I ask why?
What about someone like me who is bisexual?
I'm not with anyone right now, but I have definitely experienced homophobia over the years. One surprising example came from my mother, whose sister - my aunt - is a lesbian and has been with the same woman for over 35 years. My mother said (about my girlfriend) "of course she can come to Thanksgiving dinner, but you should really introduce her as your friend and not your girlfriend," to which I said "absolutely fucking not; if I were dating a guy you wouldn't even think to SUGGEST that to me"). I've dated girls who had never been with other girls before and who had a kind of internalized homophobia that I now realize meant/means that they were fine with having a 6 month relationship with me but they never, ever would have been fine with spending the rest of their lives with me. Or any other girl, for that matter.
I'm asking you because it often feels like the "sex" part is the only part that matters to anyone about bisexuality. So when I'm with a girl, I'm welcomed with open arms into the LGBTQ community. But when I'm with a guy, I'm shunned by that community and presumed to be straight. No, my orientation never changed. The gender of the person I fell in love with changed.
And ... assuming you're not African American, do you think that a black person "shouldn't" give the benefit of the doubt to you or to anyone who is not black until they've "earned" it?
And how DOES a person "earn" it?
I'm not asking to be antagonistic. I'm really not. Your last statement just left me feeling confused - so confused I logged onto an actual PC to respond instead of just typing something out on my phone!
I don't trust straight people about homophobia and GBLT issues (or, necessarily, with my personal safety). I only trust GBLT people. And that includes bisexuals all the time regardless of who they are dating or even if they're dating at all. There are some few issues I only trust with other gay men.
Familial homophobia is the worst, for many years my husband wasn't welcome - still isn't by most of the family. The epic fights we've had
I wouldn't expect a black person to give someone who isn't black the benefit of the doubt. I won't say whether they should or not because that's their choice and position.
Edit to add: The greater/more frequent the problematic behaviour in the past, the bigger hill they have to climb before I extend trust, of course.
A person earns it, in my book, by repeated and long term good behaviour, owning their mis-steps, not making a lot of mistakes (and showing a willingness to learn when they do so), not treating respect for GBLT people as some kind of achievement and attempting not to wallow in privilege, supporting our rights without reservation or hesitation and, most definitely, not using slurs.
Edited at 2012-05-27 02:17 am (UTC)
I also have black friends here in NYC who have argued with me over the concept that it's a "civil rights" issue in any way comparable to African American civil rights issues, mostly based on the idea of skin color being visible and more open to discrimination whereas sexuality is not immediately visible to everyone.
On the subway here, in addition to "Keep your belongings in sight at all times. Protect yourself. If you see a suspicious package or activity on the platform or train, do not keep it to yourself. Tell a police officer or an MTA employee. Remain alert and have a safe day," they've added an announcement about giving up one's seat to the pregnant, elderly, and disabled. But some disabilities aren't visible. When my father (RIP) began having chemotherapy, I had to drive him to/from his appointments because it weakened him so much. This was before he started to look sick, before you could visibly tell that he had a fatal disease. Or people with neuropathy who can't stand for long periods of time. And I'm pretty sure disability rights issues are viewed as civil rights issues, so the argument of "visible" discrimination has always fallen flat to me.
That being said, I know for certain that in Southern Baptist congregations, there's still a very stigmatized attitude against gay marriage or even the idea of homosexuality being "biological."
I have found myself wondering if, say, Hillary Clinton had been elected and pushed for gay marriage, whether she'd have the support of African American constituents. Even I was shocked to see Al Sharpton endorsing Obama's stance on gay marriage, TBH.
Ditto for Colin Powell, who went a step further and said it shouldn't be a "state" issue but a "federal" one.
I don't think Southern blacks are all for same-sex marriage. I simply said that it isn't a platform issue for them that's going to make or break their voting. I went to a Baptist church in GA and the focus was on public works and assistance for the black community. These were not people who were goin to vote for Mitt Romney just because he was anti-gay marriage. Most of them may have been morally against gay marriage, but they weren't vocal about it and most of them were very much pro-Obama. My in-laws are ministers and both of them are very pro-Obama, before and after his announcement.
And as for the rest of us...we're not a monolith, and I'm tired of the medi treating us like we are. Not all of us are Christin Southerners. None of my NYC friends are against gay marriage; most are supporters. (Many black people, even those who are for gay marriage, simply don't like the black civil rights movement being compared to the gay civil rights movement for various reasons. I, for one, hate the statement "Gay is the new black." It isn't.) We have young people and atheists and liberal Christians in our ranks just like white people do. I hate when the media treats us like one person. There are about 45 million black people and we are all different.
In Maine, where I lived with my father for a year until he passed away from cancer, they used to play Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck on talk radio at the laundromat. This SHOCKED me. And yet Maine has a summer camp for Palestinian children and Israeli children called "Seeds of Peace." They voted for marijuana legalization and barely (1 to 2% margin) failed to pass same-sex marriage, with Portland having a thriving gay community. But I saw anti-abortion ads on local TV (during American Idol) showing 3rd trimester miscarriage photos and claiming that this was what abortion looked like. Many are very protective of owning guns but there's a large Quaker community who believes in peace at all costs.
Plus, where I grew up in FL, even though when I worked for the Gore campaign at 17 because I was too young to vote and my dad reluctantly permitted me to put up a Gore/Lieberman sign, ours was the only house in the neighborhood that had a sign for him. All others were Bush/Cheney, but (aside from my Catholic schoolmates), most - like my dad - were fiscal conservatives at a time when the economy was thriving, in a neighborhood where it was visibly thriving.
So I don't like the idea that "all people of X group" feel this way or that way, either. It's very regional. For example, when the Elian Gonzales thing happened in FL, many Hispanic voters in FL turned against the Clinton administration. And many New Yorkers who would ordinarily care that Congress never declared war on Afghanistan didn't give a shit what Congress did or didn't do after witnessing the 9/11 attacks.
Rarely are voters "single issue" voters. Rarely are people supportive of candidates no matter what they do. I took off work to watch the Inaguaration w/ my grandmother, whose first ever vote was for FDR, and we cried. When Obama won, cheers could be heard all over the city: people yelling out of open windows, car horns beeping, and people in bars celebrating. And yet many New Yorkers - myself included - have been deeply, profoundly disappointed by Obama in general, as a whole.
I can tell you, though, I walked out of a Catholic mass when the priest said that anyone who voted for a pro-choice candidate was not voting along with the most "sacred" principle in the Bible, the preservation of life. [No mention was made of the death penalty.] What "matters" to voters on moral issues can be influenced by the church, the area, and the demographics - but that's not to say that you can combine those things to create a profile of how a given group feels or will vote when it comes down to it.
I'm very happy the President made his announcement. It will give some more confidence regardless of race in speaking out and saying "Yes, I support marriage equality!" I really wish that the media stop targeting black celebrities or public figures and asking them their opinion. It seems like their fishing for that one guy to say something to contradict the president so they can get their breaking news sound bite.
Though I do very strongly resent the idea that straight people have to get to know me and I have to pass a test in their eyes before I am due equal rights. I'm tired of people saying they need to get to know and like gay people before they'll acknowledge our humanity