ONTD Political

‘Slutty Wednesday’: NY high-school students protest dress code

2:14 pm - 06/07/2012
Stuyvesant High School is considered one of New York City's top public high schools, but some of the students there think a recently imposed dress code is just dumb.

The New York Post reports that about 100 students decided to protest the code, which bans girls from exposing their shoulders, midriffs, lower backs, bras and underwear, by having a "Slutty Wednesday," during which they intentionally broke the conservative dress standards.

"We work our asses off here, and school is about learning. Clothing is not important," ninth-grader Lucy Greider told the Post. Greider says she's been brought into the office 10 times this year for violating the dress code, which was introduced last fall. "A lot of the classrooms don't have a/c's and when it is 80 degrees outside and it is really hot, it's perfectly OK to show a little skin."



A 2010 poll by the National Center for Education Statistics found that about 57 percent of public schools enforce some kind of dress code. In addition, 19 percent of public schools require school uniforms, a 12 percent increase over the previous decade.

Dress codes, including school uniforms, often drift in and out of the public debate. However, more restrictive dress codes are usually reserved for private school systems. In 1996, President Bill Clinton stirred up controversy when he had the Department of Education distribute manuals to all of the nation's 16,000 school districts on how they could legally enforce school uniform policies without violating the First Amendment.



source, with video.

edit: all right, mea culpa for not posting this article, which explains the really shitty sexism and sizeism that this policy enforces....which is why the students adopted the term "slutty wednesday" in the first place. i hope this will clarify things/chasten some of you.
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alketaire 7th-Jun-2012 07:19 pm (UTC)
Man, I wish we'd had the guts to do that when it was 40C (104F) with the humidex in our un-air-conditioned high school.
beemo 7th-Jun-2012 07:26 pm (UTC)
you sound canadian, lol

my school's dress code basically barred us from wearing shorts. it's hot in canada sometimes, come on now.
ohloverx 7th-Jun-2012 07:26 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, I don't see any problem at all with showing shoulders with like a tank top or something. On the other hand, I don't see anything wrong with a policy that says that underwear and bras shouldn't be visible, nor bare midriffs or lower backs. Granted, I think there has to be a bit of leeway between things being visible naturally when arms are raised, versus clothing designed to show these things off.

This really isn't that tough of a school policy unless there are rules I'm not aware of. I went to school in two different districts over my high school years, and one of them had rules similar to this and the other had rules even stricter that dictated hair color, shoelace color, shirt designs, etc., so I don't see why this is seen as strict.

The real problem is that there are classrooms without AC. I'd say that should really be the focus as there shouldn't be classes without AC. Plus, I'm feeling a little weird by students protesting and calling it "Slutty Wednesday", but I can't pinpoint why and it might just be me. IDK.
beemo 7th-Jun-2012 07:29 pm (UTC)
they can't do anything about the ac realistically, and not allowing bras to be down bans tank tops across the board in my experience!
kaelstra 7th-Jun-2012 07:53 pm (UTC)
I think generally, dress codes are too strict and not really the school's place to worry about what a person decides to wear, but I do get that teenagers and children are easily victimized or singled out by what they wear, so I'm torn on the issue.
roseofjuly 8th-Jun-2012 01:18 am (UTC)
These dress codes rarely focus on things that might get children teased, though. IMO they are more often about policing girls' sexuality. They rarely have more than a few items for boys.
toxic_glory 7th-Jun-2012 07:53 pm (UTC)
I feel like the problem with school dress codes is that they tend to focus on girls dressing in a way that doesn't ~distract the boys~. I remember on my first day of high school, my (male) principal spoke at our freshman assembly and made a few jokes about how high school boys were easily distracted and how it was the girls' responsibility to keep from distracting them more...which basically meant that we had to cover ourselves up.

Hm, come to think of it...most of the rules we had for the boys had a tendency to single out fashion that would be more common among black students.
victoriabloom 7th-Jun-2012 08:15 pm (UTC)
Ugh, yes. And the assumption that's made is that if female students are wearing revealing clothing, it must be to look attract guys and look sexy. Not that there's anything wrong if somebody is trying to dress attractively, but jfc can we not assume everything girls do is for guys.
box_of_rocks 7th-Jun-2012 08:01 pm (UTC)
This doesn't seem like an overly strict dresscode to me. Presumably most of the boys and all of the teachers aren't wearing tube tops, spaghetti strap tanks, or midriff-baring clothing even in the hottest weather - most anyone could survive in reasonably long shorts or skirt and a sleeveless, thick strapped tank, right?
spiffynamehere 7th-Jun-2012 08:43 pm (UTC)
...No?

I have yet to find a thick-strapped tank that works for me.
victoriabloom 7th-Jun-2012 08:04 pm (UTC)
I don't have too much of a problem with schools having some sort of dress codes, as long as they're lenient, especially in warm weather, but after my last bit of student teaching in May I do have massive issues with the way teachers deal with dress codes.

I was working in a middle school and I was appalled at how the teachers spoke about the dress code behind students' backs. Mind you, only the dress codes for girls, of course. *sigh* While I'm not a huge fan of dress codes, my view is just, okay, I don't really care what you wear outside of school, it's your body, just know that this outfit isn't appropriate for school (or doesn't fit what somebody has deemed "appropriate," but as a student teacher I never wanted to say in front of other teachers that dress codes are arbitrary) but it might be fine elsewhere. The other teachers, though ... they frequently had discussions about the dress code for girls (mostly because the administration hadn't clearly defined what length of shorts were allowed) and UGH, the discussions were filled with such slut-shaming. JFC, it's a school without AC, can you not make assumptions that every girl who wears short shorts is doing so to look sexy? And even if they are, it's not your business.

It was so fucking sickening and I didn't really know what to do, being a student teacher, so I was always just like "I don't have any problem with how they dress, as long as they know those clothes are better left for places other than school." :|

JFC, obviously slut-shaming is horrible at any age, but considering this was a middle school it was really horrifying to hear things like "We might need to remind the students about the dress code, I'm seeing a lot of girls wearing slutty shorts today" about 12-14 year olds. :|

Edited at 2012-06-07 08:06 pm (UTC)
wrestlingdog 8th-Jun-2012 01:16 pm (UTC)
Yeah, that sounds about right. /:
coryrain 7th-Jun-2012 08:13 pm (UTC)
I watched the video and I don't think any of them looked "slutty".
I mean, I get not wanting to see peoples underwear or bellies hanging out, but it gets hot in the summer! Let them wear tank tops and shorts for pete's sake!

I got in trouble a lot in high school for violating the "shorts shall not be shorter than your finger tips" rule simply because I'm 5'9" and it's hard to find shorts that long!
corinn 8th-Jun-2012 02:12 am (UTC)
I got in trouble a lot in high school for violating the "shorts shall not be shorter than your finger tips" rule simply because I'm 5'9" and it's hard to find shorts that long!

*fistbump of solidarity* Ah, the baggy shorts I sometimes ended up wearing because "normal" ones were so damn short on my six-foot frame. There really needed to be more clothes for tall girls, for srs.
redstar826 7th-Jun-2012 08:16 pm (UTC)
which bans girls from exposing their shoulders, midriffs, lower backs, bras and underwear

Minus the shoulders part (which I am assuming would ban tank tops) I really don't see why this is unreasonable. From what I have seen working in various school districts, these rules seem to be the norm.



Edited at 2012-06-07 08:21 pm (UTC)
ohloverx 7th-Jun-2012 08:27 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I think this is why I'm kind of not understanding the protest. This is a pretty standard dress code in most areas from my experience and what I've heard from others.

I think the questionable part would be, as others have pointed out, if there are no similar rules for male students. THAT would bother me more than not being allowed to wear spaghetti straps or whatever.
premor 7th-Jun-2012 08:28 pm (UTC)
Honestly, I don't get the point of dress codes. I don't think there are any schools with dress codes in this country, really (apart from footwear and occasionally a teacher would tell people to take off their caps/beanies/etc), and kids still manage to dress perfectly sensibly.
thesilverymoon 7th-Jun-2012 09:42 pm (UTC)
My school never had a dress code that I can recall (which was AWESOME since I came there from a school with a really strict one) and I can't recall any of the students dressing what I thought was inappropriately. Our principal was a former Jesuit priest so he definitely had issues from time to time though there wasn't much he could do abut it, but none of the teachers ever seemed to give a flying fuck what students wore.
christoph 7th-Jun-2012 08:32 pm (UTC)
This doesn't sound extremely strict to me, as my school had the same if not harsher rules, but I understand their frustration. For me, the issue was that the dress code is almost always directed exclusively at females, and when they're not, females are the only ones who the rule is enforced upon. My high school forbid showing shoulders yet the guys could walk around with their muscle shirts while the girls got scolded for wearing tank tops. I get that for girls it showed their bra straps (sometimes), but in my opinion, they're not walking around in the nude, so who cares if the strap is showing? If girls can get over seeing guys walking around with their pants around their ankles with their boxers pulled up too high, guys can get over seeing a little bra strap. These are high schoolers, and the girls aren't there to baby sit the boys and make sure they're not distracted by their clothing choices.
catkirk7 7th-Jun-2012 08:48 pm (UTC)
" I’ve been told that even though my skirts were technically acceptable, they were still too short for me to wear, and once it was suggested that I should follow a separate dress code, wherein my skirts should end at least four inches past my fingertips, and preferably at my knees. Even though hearing that I needed an individual dress code was hurtful, it wasn’t even the worst thing that’s happened to me regarding the dress code. That would be the time that I walked in wearing a dress that did in fact follow the rules, only to be stopped by one of the women sitting by the scanners. She told me that my dress was too short, and that I would have plenty of time to “show off my curves” when I wasn’t in school (I found this to be ridiculous because the dress I was wearing was shapeless). She then went on to say that the dress code was only instituted for my protection, because there are a lot of bad men outside school, and if I was raped nobody would be able to take that away from me. Then, she said, “And you want a husband, don’t you?”
source

It's not just a question of the specific restrictions. The school is being shaming and inconsistent and the burden is falling entirely on the girls.
ohloverx 7th-Jun-2012 09:45 pm (UTC)
That is definitely a problem that needs to be addressed. There shouldn't be value judgments based on a person because of their choice of attire. And it is especially shady if you have rules and you shame the girls even when those rules are followed. That's some old bullshit, tbh.
ceilidh 7th-Jun-2012 09:03 pm (UTC)
I don't like dress codes that focus more on girls than guys, as if somehow girls dress "worse" than guys by default or something. It should be equal. And while here in the PNW we can survive without A/C I used to live back east and HELL NO. Air conditionining should be in schools, period. It's one thing if you're at home laying around with the windows open and fans on, but cram a bunch of people in a room without adequate ventilation? Gross and unhealthy.

That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with a reasonable dress code that applies equally to all. Personally, I don't really want to see *anyone's* underwear or butt crack in a school/work setting.
tvisgood 7th-Jun-2012 09:24 pm (UTC)
OMG, you're reminding me of my high school in the early 00s when thongs and low-rise jeans were a big thing and I had to constantly see the butt cracks of the girls sitting in front of me.
sparkindarkness 7th-Jun-2012 09:13 pm (UTC)
I'm always torn on uniform debates - actually a little surpised because in the UK when I was at school, school uniforms seemed the norm (maybe still are) I couldn't imagine going to a school without a uniform (including tie. We all hated those ties, but they were colour coded based on your year so useful for the school). I was always torn between the expense of the uniform vs not having to compete with fellow students over fashion. I never realised so many US schools didn't have uniforms.


I'm not sure how much this dress code singles people out and doesn't seem too unfair (except the shoulders). I think it will disproportionately hit the girls, but largely because these aren't styles boys commonly wear. It should apply equally though, even if it's clear that the dress code violations are probably not going to come from the boys
bleakwinters 8th-Jun-2012 11:52 am (UTC)
They do still have uniforms in schools in the UK, up until college. I think they work well and erase a lot of socio-economic based bullying. They're not perfect by any means (my cousin, who is 15, goes to a Catholic school and has to wear a skirt, no matter the weather. No trousers, ever) but they do work.
the_glow_worm 7th-Jun-2012 09:40 pm (UTC)
What's with the people talking about how the dress code doesn't seem that strict? That's not what it's about, seriously.

I feel like this article is more worth a read. It's the students in their own words:

I’m not sure what it is about me that causes me to become the administration’s target girl. Not all my friends have the same problem; few girls I know get called out as frequently as I do, and of course boys barely have to acknowledge the existence of a dress code at all. Perhaps this simply stems from some sort of miscommunication about the rules of the dress code. One day I came in wearing a jean skirt that actually extended beyond my fingertips (I had checked!) and, although wary of being called out, I was not totally surprised to be stopped anyway. What did surprise me was being informed that it wasn’t enough for the skirt to simply reach past my fingertips (à la the rules as stated in the student planner), it had to “go well past.” When I complained, indignant, that they just didn’t make dresses or skirts long enough to pass – not for teenagers, anyway – I was advised to “think knees,” or just wear pants. I was released with a warning, and left feeling like I’d been called out for wearing a bikini top to school, or a garter belt. It was an unpleasant, shaming experience.

ohloverx 7th-Jun-2012 09:52 pm (UTC)
Probably because the OP and source doesn't actually say ANY of these things that your comment does. If the article you are linking had been posted, I think the comments here would be FAR different.

With that being said, there definitely does seem to be something wrong and it isn't the dress code itself. It's the shits who run the school and actively shame the female students. It doesn't seem to be the dress code they are protesting so much as the mistreatment they receive from faculty and staff and the bullshit way the rules are so unevenly applied. The way those in power are treating them is fucked up and I'm glad they are taking a stand against it!
herosquad 7th-Jun-2012 10:06 pm (UTC)
Speaking as a Stuy grad... those classrooms get hot as fuck in the spring/early fall. The dress codes weren't that intense, I think, when I was there, but you do get overheated no matter what you're wearing. And it's not like our teachers let us stop working to make paper fans or whatever, hahaha.

I also think that any dress code which has stricter rules for girls than boys is full of shit. Fight the power, kids. Also see what you can do about getting the escalators to run consistently.
psyko_kittie 7th-Jun-2012 10:12 pm (UTC)
One question... where the hell are their parents!?! My mother would have killed me if I had walked out of the house for school in something short enough to flash my underwear at someone....hell, I had a little bit more respect for myself than that.

And I know hot, born and raised in the deep South...110F in the shade and the damn A/C crapped out sometime in November and it's now blazing hot in April with 4 weeks left in school.
roseofjuly 8th-Jun-2012 01:34 am (UTC)
Number one, I don't think that the shortness is a problem - I think this refers to low-slung jeans and shorts. And number two, the article doesn't say that showing their underwear is actually an issue. Schools are notorious for making rules that don't actually address any existing problems.

And number three, this is one of the top public schools in the nation and definitely the top one in the city. The kids who go to these schools, on average, have very involved parents and are far more likely to be upper-income than parents at most NYC schools.

And number four, why does showing your underwear - inadvertently or not - mean that you don't have respect for yourself? Why does the way a women dresses have to translate into how she feels about herself instead of just how she wants to look?
evilgmbethy 7th-Jun-2012 10:15 pm (UTC)
it always bothered the hell out of me that they would be so strict on the dress code at my school, especially when it came to too-short skirts, yet the cheerleaders' outfits, the skirts were practically nonexistent and they were allowed to wear them in school. Like, if the cheerleaders should get to do it, everyone should.

but maybe that's my bitterness over how everything associated with the football program at my high school got a pass when no one else did.
redstar826 7th-Jun-2012 10:27 pm (UTC)
that was an ongoing complaint at my high school too. The cheerleaders would wear these itty bitty skirts and everyone else had to follow the finger-tip rule
ariesathena 7th-Jun-2012 10:27 pm (UTC)
Yeah... I must have missed the part about an inalienable right to tank tops in civics class.

Seriously though, if there are issues with selective and/or inconsistent enforcement or the dress code really only addresses what girls wear then yeah, that's fucked up.

But the dress code itself sounds perfectly reasonable to me. It's less strict than the one I had at my high school where shorts were only allowed in September, May and June and they had to fall no more than three inches from the top of the knee cap. Skirts had to be the same length and yes, it's a pain in the ass to find shorts and skirts that long in the juniors department but somehow we all managed. It's been a long time but I seem to remember sleeveless tops being banned entirely.
roseofjuly 8th-Jun-2012 01:38 am (UTC)
*sigh*

The point is not about the specific tenets of the dress code, but the fact that this dress code (and dress codes in general) seeks to police the sexuality of the girls and are usually unevenly enforced - much more strictly for girls, lenient for boys. What is wrong with seeing the slip f a bra strap or a a shoulder under a tank top? The issue is not whether there is a right to wear tank tops, and that's a ridiculous argument. The question is whether it even makes sense and is doing anything worthwhile to ban tank tops in school - and for what? Because some teenage boy is going to pop a boner because he sees a shoulder?
ebay313 7th-Jun-2012 10:47 pm (UTC)
There are way to many value judgements about what girls, especially teen girls, wear. Kids should dress reasonably and comfortably. There is nothing evil and awful about seeing a bra strap, shoulders, knees, et cetera. There should not be so much fucking slut-shaming toward young girls who wear skirts, shorts and tank tops. Those are perfectly reasonable articles of clothing, and adults need to get the fuck over it. As long as someone's but cheeks aren't falling out of their shorts- schools should worry about teaching and not girls waring *gasp*shock*horror* shorts in summer months.
yeats 8th-Jun-2012 12:19 am (UTC)
i am so weirded out by these comments...it's like my stuffy great aunt has populated a dozen sock accounts.
walkwithheroes 7th-Jun-2012 10:48 pm (UTC)
I don't mind dress codes. When I was in school, we had them. I went to a public school and we had uniforms: polo shirts, khaki or blue slacks, khaki shorts or khaki skirts. And the shorts and skirts had to be at the knee. I live in Louisiana and went to a high school that didn't always have AC. It could get upwards of 90 degrees in the building. With the heat - it could feel like 110 degrees in some parts of school. But, we all survived. 80 degrees would have been paradise!

That said: I have no big issue with the girls (or boys) wearing no-sleeve shirts. Or shorts/dresses/skirts that are shorter than at the knee. I do have an issue with booty shorts, low riding pants, and low-cut shirts that show bras or too much skin being worn at school. Showing too much skin is school is a big no for me. Mostly because I see school as a job: and you wouldn't show your underwear at your place of work. Children: if you wouldn't wear it at a professional job/funeral/family picture - don't wear it to school.
lizzy_someone 8th-Jun-2012 02:37 am (UTC)
If you sign my paychecks, then fine, go to town, tell me what to wear. If you're being paid to teach me and I'm required by law to be taught by you, then I really don't see why you should get to dictate my wardrobe. (Barring, like, racist/misogynist/homophobic/transphobic/etc. content, violent threats, and graphic sexual content. And nakedness because it's unhygienic.) Also, what constitutes "showing too much skin" is subjective to the point of meaninglessness. Some people consider women with uncovered faces to be showing too much skin.
anolinde 7th-Jun-2012 10:51 pm (UTC)
We didn't have a dress code at my high school, and tbh I never saw anyone wearing anything inappropriate. It was pretty much a non-issue.
master_minion 7th-Jun-2012 11:26 pm (UTC)
It's not really just bra straps peeking out though in my experience - I went to secondary school in the UK so we wore uniforms, and in my last year the headteacher tried to make it against the rules for girls to wear bras you could see through their shirts. So like, no bra that wasn't plain white or nude really. For 16 year old and under girls.

Yeah, all that stopped after some strongly worded phone calls from parents and a, ahem, protest where some girls wore their brightest, most patterned bras over their shirts for a bit.
ebay313 8th-Jun-2012 02:34 am (UTC)
This reminded me of something that happened to me in high school- I went to a private high school in the US with a uniform. But on a jean day I got yelled at by a teacher for wearing a t-shirt that was tan colored. She actually never explained what was wrong with it, just in front of the whole class told me my shirt was very inappropriate and when I looked confused told me I knew exactly what she was talking about and not to pretend I didn't. No one else in the class could figure out what her problem with my shirt was either (it covered my full midriff, it was not low cut, it was short sleeve not sleeveless.) All I can guess to this day is that because it was a tannish color she felt it was meant to appear I wasn't wearing a shirt- which I don't think anyone except her would have thought seeing me in a tannish toned shirt.
And it's annoying because no matter how ridiculous SHE was being, I was still incredibly embarrassed by the way she did that.
randomtasks 7th-Jun-2012 11:38 pm (UTC)
I went to high school in South Florida and I found the dress code to be pretty sexist.

Our dress code was that we were to only wear collared shirts in school colors (red, white, grey, and blue) and they had to be solid. Undershirts also must be in solid school colors and they must be worn if the collared shirts will show cleavage but guys were allowed to leave their button-up shirts half open which really pissed me off because they were giving detention to girls for showing cleavage when they WERE BENDING OVER. It's like they wanted us to be in turtlenecks instead. Girls were not allowed to wear skirts and long shorts/capris (technically they had the fingertip rule but girls who were wearing those floor length skirts were always sent to the office for ~dress code violation~ same for girls who wore capris since they counted as ~shorts~). And guys were allowed to wear shorts ofc and the fingertip rule didn't apply to them (so many guys wore shorts that stopped mid-thigh).

Edited at 2012-06-07 11:42 pm (UTC)
ohloverx 7th-Jun-2012 11:55 pm (UTC)
Wow. That is a whole bunch of fucked up bullshit. Did anyone ever do or say anything about it?
interstellar 7th-Jun-2012 11:39 pm (UTC)
So glad most schools here have mandatory uniforms. D:
ms_maree 8th-Jun-2012 12:15 am (UTC)
Same.
spiffynamehere 8th-Jun-2012 02:51 am (UTC)
"No boobs" is really difficult still, though, especially for girls with larger breasts.
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