ONTD Political

What makes some of us uncomfortable with bisexual women? It is because we think they're either lesbians having straight sex or straight women testing out their fantasies on us before returning to men?

In today's post-modern, queer-focused world, bisexuality is being promoted to lesbians as the latest fashionable trend. This has resulted in lesbian politics, namely feminism, being passed over for sexual hedonism, where the only thing that matters is sexual pleasure and desire. Similarly, bisexuality is sold to heterosexual women as some type of recreational activity far from their "natural home" of straight sex. It is seen as "temporary lesbianism."


It is more à la mode to have sex with a man if you are a lesbian than if you're a straight woman, who is merely doing what she is expected to do "naturally." Lesbians having heterosexual sex are seen as transgressive, when in fact they are simply reverting to a traditional way of being a woman. For a straight woman, having a girlfriend on the side is almost like having the latest Prada handbag.

Camille Paglia, the most famous "anti-lesbian lesbian," has written reams about how she worships the penis and cannot understand those of us who do not. In fact Paglia, like many lesbian tourists who sleep with women on the weekend and go back to hubby on Monday morning, thinks lesbian sex needs to be "spiced up" by the odd "het" shag:

Women, I think, are naturally bisexual. You know I'm not telling lesbians to stop sleeping only with women, but to leave open a part of the brain toward men and accept male lust and find men extremely attractive and get horny in relation to men and ogle their bodies and do something with them, then sex with women will be hotter.

Has Paglia internalized so much anti-lesbian oppression that she, too, thinks that all lesbians need is a good bit of heterosexual-style shagging?

But many lesbians, and even bisexual women themselves, mistrust the concept of swinging both ways. One U.S. study of bisexuality, which draws on interviews with 400 self-identified lesbians and bisexual women, found that a substantial number of bisexuals prefer to hang out with lesbians instead of other bisexual women in social situations, and have greater political trust in lesbians than they do in other bisexual women. It was also found that "[s]ome bisexual women actually doubt whether bisexual women exist at all."

Whatever our views and politics about lesbianism may be, we cannot deny that women face compulsory heterosexuality from birth. Despite huge progress since I came out in 1977, it is still not really acceptable to reject men and choose not to live under their guardianship, whether you are in Saudi Arabia or the U.K.

When I write about making a positive choice to be a lesbian, and that I believe there is no gay (or for that matter bisexual) "gene," I am accused of being an ideological robot and therefore not genuinely sexually attracted to women. That is nonsense. I personally feel that straight women are missing out on the best sex on the planet, but that is their choice.

If we put aside lesbian feminism, the way most people approach sexuality is that they think we are straight, gay, or attracted to both sexes. For bisexual women living under the tyranny of sexism, choosing to be lesbian is a liberatory act.

Those of us who grew up in a time and context where there was a political analysis of sexuality were able to make a positive choice to be a lesbian. I believed then, and I believe now, that if bisexual women had an ounce of sexual politics, they would stop sleeping with men.


Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/julie-bindel/where-is-the-politics-in-_b_1589435.html?utm_hp_ref=two
roseofjuly 14th-Jun-2012 10:11 pm (UTC)
Your support of comparing viruses to misogyny implies it.

Viruses pass from person to person without any effort on the part of the infected individuals. That implies that you believe that misogyny just passes from man to man without any active work on the man's part.
andmydog 14th-Jun-2012 10:36 pm (UTC)
So you think that unless the action is intentional, it doesn't count, is that it? Men are perpetuating misogyny, and I said as much. They just aren't all doing it because they hate women, which is your assumption. They are doing it because they've been raised to believe that it's just how things are. That does not make them active, intentional participants in the oppression of half the planet. That makes them ignorant, and ignorance can be addressed (by the ignorant party themselves, not just by others).

Racism is perpetuated by many people who, if asked, would honestly say that they do not hate members of the group they are oppressing. They just know that members of that group are this way or that way, because that's what they've been taught. Ditto homophobia. Homophobia is perpetuated by many people who, if asked, would honestly say that they do not hate members of the group they are oppressing. I understand that life seems easier when you have a villain to point to and blame, but real life doesn't actually work that way.

Your viewpoint is too either/or, which is a great position to take if you're just angry, or if you need to muster the troops. I'm down with that, 100%. But if you actually want to change things, then you're eventually going to need to realize that the world isn't the us-v-them place you see it as. The more you attack them as a "them" unit, the more "they" are going to dig in and refuse to do anything but strike back.

And before you willfully misread... I am not saying that you are not allowed to get angry. Get angry. Getting angry is good and healthy. What I am saying is that you're reacting to a system-wide problem by trying to divide the system, and that's not going to work.
koshkabegemot 15th-Jun-2012 02:18 am (UTC)
What you said: They are doing it because they've been raised to believe that it's just how things are.

What roseofjuly said in her original reply: Misogyny is purposely inculcated and passed from men to boys, and into girls, generation upon generation.

What that means: They are doing it because they've been raised to believe that its just how things are. Nowhere in her original reply does she say anything remotely like, "Oh, they just do it because they hate women."
andmydog 15th-Jun-2012 02:21 am (UTC)
Reread your comment again, and this time, pay attention to the part where I don't subscribe to this idea that misogyny is an intentional, active oppressive act on the part of every man who benefits from it, and you and amaterasu clearly do. That's the difference here.
koshkabegemot 15th-Jun-2012 02:35 am (UTC)
You originally said that:

Men are perpetuating misogyny, and I said as much. . . . They are doing it because they've been raised to believe that it's just how things are. That does not make them active, intentional participants in the oppression of half the planet. That makes them ignorant, and ignorance can be addressed (by the ignorant party themselves, not just by others).

And how are they raised to believe that's just the way things are if it's not an active, intentional act? Misogyny doesn't just spontaneously create itself and rise from the abyss.
andmydog 15th-Jun-2012 02:37 am (UTC)
You're kidding, right? You honestly don't see how somebody could be taught a thing by the culture they live in without it being an intentional, directed lesson?

Seriously?
koshkabegemot 15th-Jun-2012 02:46 am (UTC)
It doesn't have to be an intentional, directed lesson like, "Hey, guys, have a seat! Welcome to Misogyny 101! Stick around so that you too can learn how to keep your status over women!"

Boys/men are constantly subconsciously (and not so subconsciously) bombarded with messages that they have to be strong, masculine, better than girls/women at everything, that they're more intelligent, more logical, what have you. Girls/women are constantly bombarded with messages that they're weak, less intelligent, have to fit a certain body type, can't be into "boys" things like cars and video games and mechanics and what have you.

These beliefs are, as roseofjulysaid, inculcated lessons taught within a society from generation to generation, from gender to gender to keep the privileged party (in this case, men) in charge, and a lot of them happen on a very basic, almost primal level.
roseofjuly 15th-Jun-2012 05:34 am (UTC)
They just aren't all doing it because they hate women, which is your assumption.

I never said that they were doing it because they hated women. I said that they are doing it because they want to maintain institutional power.

They just know that members of that group are this way or that way, because that's what they've been taught.

There are many different kinds of racism. Some people would say they hate members of the group; others would lie when they consciously do because they know it's not socially acceptable to say so. Still others would say so and genuinely mean it, but implicit tests show that they really do have prejudicial behavior. But again, you're assuming somehow that I'm inferring hate from these actions. Yes, some people in the oppressing unit hate, but this is about power. They want to maintain the power they have.

The more you attack them as a "them" unit, the more "they" are going to dig in and refuse to do anything but strike back.

Then fuck them.

What I am saying is that you're reacting to a system-wide problem by trying to divide the system, and that's not going to work.

No, I'm calling a spade a spade. Men who truly want to make a difference will realize that they are part of the problem UNLESS they act consciously against sexism. I'm not going to be one of those women who coddles them, pats them on the head and tells them we're all in this together. Because we're not. They're not suffering from institutional sexism.
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