ONTD Political

Muxes: A Third Gender in Oaxaca, Mexico

7:20 pm - 06/25/2012
Earlier this month NPR profiled Alex Hernandez, a member of a Mexican third gender. This prompted me to re-post our discussion of muxes from 2008. Images of Hernandez are added at the end.

A New York Times article this week briefly profiles muxes, a third “gender” widely accepted in Oaxaca, Mexico. According to the article, this part of Mexico has retained many of the pre-colonial traditions. One of these included flexibility around gender and sexual orientation. From the article:

There, in the indigenous communities around the town of Juchitán, the world is not divided simply into gay and straight. The local Zapotec people have made room for a third category, which they call “muxes” (pronounced MOO-shays) — men who consider themselves women and live in a socially sanctioned netherworld between the two genders.

“Muxe” is a Zapotec word derived from the Spanish “mujer,” or woman; it is reserved for males who, from boyhood, have felt themselves drawn to living as a woman, anticipating roles set out for them by the community.



Not all muxes express their identities the same way. Some dress as women and take hormones to change their bodies. Others favor male clothes. What they share is that the community accepts them; many in it believe that muxes have special intellectual and artistic gifts.

Robin B. pointed us to a slide show. Here are some select images and info from the Times.

Alex with her mother, Rosa Taledo Vicente, and her father, Victor Martinez Jimenez:



Ninel with her boyfriend, Sebastian Sarmienta, 18 years old, have a laugh outside of Ninel’s home:



Carmelo with his grandmother at their home in Unión Hidalgo:



“Thalía,” who was named princess the night before at a vela, or community celebration, for the muxes, waits for a parade to begin:



Beth-Sua enjoys a smoke at a vela in Oaxaca City. She traveled there from the Isthmus to represent her city’s muxes:



Alex Hernandez at the Vela de Las Intrepidas, a festival in “celebration of ambiguity and mixed gender identities”:







More images at NPR.


Societal Images
emptysilentlife 26th-Jun-2012 01:36 am (UTC)
"There, in the indigenous communities around the town of Juchitán, the world is not divided simply into gay and straight."

What's the purpose of this sentence? Maybe I'm missing it but there's nothing in this article about sexual orientation.

Otherwise it's an interesting article.



Edited at 2012-06-26 01:38 am (UTC)
toxic_glory 26th-Jun-2012 02:37 am (UTC)
I didn't understand that sentence either. I just figured the author was mixing up sexuality and gender.
bizwac 26th-Jun-2012 03:26 am (UTC)
Yeah, I found it a bid odd, but then thought maybe it's because people have relationships with the muxes, so they can't be classed as gay or straight, given the muxes are a third gender? idk, just throwing a guess out there.
meran_flash 26th-Jun-2012 08:30 am (UTC)
Sociological Images is a shitty site with a bunch of shitty straight bloggers, so I'm not surprised to see them miss the point like this.
lafinjack 26th-Jun-2012 09:47 am (UTC)
That whole block is a quote from the NYT article, so in this case it's a shitty newspaper with a bunch of shitty straight journalists.
meran_flash 26th-Jun-2012 08:47 pm (UTC)
Ah, my mistake, sorry.
lafinjack 26th-Jun-2012 09:49 pm (UTC)
YOU SHOULD BE SORRY, I CRIED FOR HOURS
kittymink 26th-Jun-2012 04:48 am (UTC)
I read about the muxes before, might have been here. I find it really interesting. I know not everyone likes the idea of a third gender but I do.
lafinjack 26th-Jun-2012 05:43 am (UTC)
I know not everyone likes the idea of a third gender...

I'm not sure I understand why someone would be opposed to how someone else perceives themself.
poisondusk 26th-Jun-2012 07:10 am (UTC)
Third gender groups are almost exclusively people who would be seen as trans women in Western LGBT culture, and some people feel that having a third gender is just a way to other trans women and restrict them from identifying simply as women. It's not uncommon to see transphobic arguments that binary-identifying trans people will never be 'real' men or women, that they will always be in-between, and and so some people don't like the idea of trans people voluntarily identifying with a third gender.

Really though, it's up to the muxes and other third gender groups to decide what to call themselves, and personally as a somewhat non-binary trans person, I wish that more cultures had additional genders.
fm_gatekeeper 26th-Jun-2012 12:27 pm (UTC)
Really though, it's up to the muxes and other third gender groups to decide what to call themselves, and personally as a somewhat non-binary trans person, I wish that more cultures had additional genders.

As a binary-identified trans guy I agree with you.

I get extremely irritated when people try to act like ALL trans people are non-binary (or should be), and I've seen it a lot, and at a societal level that's probably happening with a lot of places where a third gender is recognized. But it's up to the people that are being lumped into that group whether or not they're okay with it, and if they are, more power to them, really. And it must be really great for those that do identify as non-binary--societal recognition can be a really empowering thing.
romp 26th-Jun-2012 08:29 pm (UTC)
thanks for expanding on that
romp 26th-Jun-2012 04:57 am (UTC)
I wonder if this is connected to the strong role of women in that town or part of Oaxaca. I only know what I saw in Blossoms of Fire but it suggested that the culture is pro-women and therefore had room for variations in orientation and gender.
jaeji 26th-Jun-2012 11:20 am (UTC)
good for them.

just in class about an hour ago, my lecturer said, "you can only be a male or female. either one. no exceptions."

yeah... no.
tinylegacies 26th-Jun-2012 11:30 am (UTC)
I think it's awesome that the Muxes have their own society and seem to be accepted by others.

But I'm a little confused and if someone could clarify or point me in the direction of resources, I'd appreciate it. I was under the impression that "third gender" referred to people who did not identify as male or female. This seems to be exclusively biologically born males who identify as female. Does that mean a biologically born female who identified as male would not be included/welcome?

Also, what is the difference between FtM, MtF, and third gender? Is there one?
nonnycat 27th-Jun-2012 02:42 am (UTC)
Ciswoman here who has done some reading on the subject -- my understanding is that the difference there is definition between US culture and indigenous cultures. I know I have read of various First Nation tribes that have a "third gender" that some consider transgender people as a whole to be part of, although we in US society would not call them that. They seem to have different terminology and concepts, categorizing FTM and MTF as "third gender" rather than FTM, MTF, and non-binary, so trying to fit it into our language is imperfect at best. (Certainly, this is not an across-the-board definition, but I've read it about enough tribes that it seems to be a common approach.)
mephisto5 27th-Jun-2012 10:50 am (UTC)
FtM = Female to Male, someone who was assigned female at birth but self identifies as male.

MtF = Male to Female, someone who was assigned male at birth but self identifies as female.

These are both generally used by binary-identified people (i.e. those who self identify as one or other of two genders).

Third gender: someone who does not identify as male or female, but as a third gender.

There are also agender (do not identify with any gender), neutrois (identify as neutral or centred between the genders), genderfluid (does not consistently identify with one gender).

Please note that these are western terms based in a western understanding of gender. Transgender (an umbrella term encompassing all those I have previously defined plus many others) people exist in every culture and are those who do not consistently identify as the gender expected of them due to their apparent physical sex at birth. However, the expression of this is culturally varient, so some cultures have a three or more genders, others do not.

Whether someone assigned female at birth would be welcome as third gender is not a question that can be answered simply. It is something that will be affected by culture, by the ratio of assigned male at birth (AMAB) and assigned female at birth (AFAB) trans* people, by the relative status of men and women, by the ease of 'passing' etc.

NB: it's better to use AFAB and AMAB than 'biologically born'. Whether a trans* person is 'biologically' one sex or the other is often used by transphobes to deny trans* people access to services. It also doesn't really make sense given how male and female are an assortment of characteristics, not exclusively defined by one thing or another. A better post on this is here.
tinylegacies 27th-Jun-2012 11:32 am (UTC)
Thank you for this.
little_rachael 26th-Jun-2012 04:45 pm (UTC)
What beautiful pictures! This was a very good read.
jettakd 26th-Jun-2012 05:22 pm (UTC)
Lovely pictures! And I had no idea about this in Mexico, it's wonderful :)
poetic_pixie_13 26th-Jun-2012 05:39 pm (UTC)
I love learning about the different gender categories other cultures have. When I was a kid I was absolutely fascinated with hijras (given how I view my gender and sexuality now I totally understand why.) The photos are gorgeous. Also, Beth-Sua looks fierce as fuck.
crossfire 26th-Jun-2012 06:21 pm (UTC)
I saw that picture and kind of fell in love a little bit.

This article makes my day. The entire community celebrates! They have parades! :D
maladaptive 26th-Jun-2012 09:54 pm (UTC)
"Fierce as fuck" were my exact thoughts when I saw that picture.
crossfire 26th-Jun-2012 06:18 pm (UTC)
I did not know about this at all, this is awesome.

“Thalía,” who was named princess the night before at a vela, or community celebration, for the muxes, waits for a parade to begin

The entire community celebrates. And they have parades. sorry something in my eye
tabaqui 27th-Jun-2012 02:16 am (UTC)
Why is this so hard for so many people to accept? I just don't get why anyone *cares* how someone else identifies.

These pictures are all gorgeous.
lafinjack 27th-Jun-2012 04:56 am (UTC)
But they're different!
tabaqui 27th-Jun-2012 05:18 am (UTC)
THE HORROR.
lafinjack 27th-Jun-2012 05:19 am (UTC)
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