ONTD Political

All the President’s Privileges

9:30 am - 06/27/2012
WHEN George W. Bush was president of the United States, it was an article of faith among liberals that many of his policies were not just misguided but unconstitutional as well. On issues large and small, from the conduct of foreign policy to the firing of United States attorneys, the Bush White House pushed an expansive view of executive authority, and Democrats pushed right back — accusing it of shredding the constitution, claiming near-imperial powers and even corrupting the lawyers working in its service.



That was quite some time ago. Last week the Obama White House invoked executive privilege to shield the Justice Department from a Congressional investigation into a botched gunrunning operation by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. The previous week the White House invoked powers that President Obama himself had previously claimed to lack, unilaterally revising the nation’s immigration laws by promising to stop enforcing them against a particularly sympathetic population.

Both moves were entirely characteristic of this presidency. Obama campaigned as a consistent critic of the Bush administration’s understanding of executive power — and a critic with a background in constitutional law, no less. But apart from his disavowal of waterboarding (an interrogation practice the Bush White House had already abandoned), almost the entire Bush-era wartime architecture has endured: rendition is still with us, the Guantánamo detention center is still open, drone strikes have escalated dramatically, and the Obama White House has claimed the right — and, in the case of Anwar al-Awlaki, followed through on it — to assassinate American citizens without trial.

These moves have met some principled opposition from the left. But the president’s liberal critics are usually academics, journalists and (occasionally) cable-TV hosts, with no real mass constituency behind them.

The majority of Democrats, polls suggest, have followed roughly the same path as the former Yale Law School dean Harold Koh, a staunch critic of Bush’s wartime policies who now serves as a legal adviser to the State Department, supplying constitutional justifications for Obama’s drone campaigns. What was outrageous under a Republican has become executive branch business-as-usual under a Democrat.

On domestic matters, the liberal silence is even more deafening. It was conservatives who pointed out the dubious constitutionality of Obama’s immigration gambit. Among liberals, it was taken for granted that the worthy ends were more important than the means.

Two forces are at work here. One is the intersection of power and partisanship, which produces predictable hypocrisies when one side passes from critiquing authority to embodying it.

These turnabouts can be quite startling. A progressive Web site noted the irony of liberal opinion’s shift on Gitmo: “Under the leadership of a President who campaigned with the promise to close the facility but reneged, support for the detention center may be at its highest level ever.”

But these turns are not always a bad thing. Sometimes it was the original partisan critique that was overdrawn, and sometimes power educates rather than corrupts. If the view from the State Department looks different from the view from Yale Law School, it isn’t necessarily the State Department that’s wrong.

What’s more perilous is the extent to which these sudden shifts reflect something unique to constitutional debates — namely that arguments for constitutional limits tend not to sway people who don’t already have a political incentive to support them.

Partisan about-faces are inevitable, but they’re arguably easier on constitutional matters. Change your mind on immigration, and your constituents may well revolt. Change your mind on whether a president has the power to do things on immigration policy that your constituents already support, though, and only your partisan critics and the occasional law professor will care.

This is why it’s so remarkable that our constitutional order has lasted so long, given the perpetual incentive — common to both parties, and all three branches of government — to abandon its safeguards in order to push a particular agenda.

Today those incentives are strongest for Democrats — visible in their support for Obama’s more dubiously constitutional forays, and also in the widespread liberal attempt to explain his struggles by casting him as a Gulliver tied down by an antiquated system of government.

Conservative pundits have noted that similar explanations were proferred to explain the failures of Jimmy Carter. That in and of itself isn’t proof that they’re wrong. But it suggests the possibility that some of the ways this president has been baffled, legislatively and perhaps soon in the courts, reflect the genius of our constitutional system rather than its failings. It’s a system that often lacks principled defenders, but that’s designed to defend itself.

Source
circumambulate 27th-Jun-2012 12:15 am (UTC)
You mean Obama isn't the most liberal political figure since Karl Marx? Shocking I tell you! Shocking!
ms_maree 27th-Jun-2012 12:55 am (UTC)
Yeah, and doing almost everything that he criticised Bush for doing.
circumambulate 27th-Jun-2012 05:05 am (UTC)
Well, that's hardly true, but at least in the case of executive privilege, yes.
ms_maree 27th-Jun-2012 06:24 am (UTC)
As well as his promises to be more transparent. But I guess that gets tied up with executive privilege as well.
ayeshadream 27th-Jun-2012 08:16 pm (UTC)
He used executive privilege once, as opposed to Bush's six time- and he didn't put in place sweeping laws to wire tap and hold americans indefinitely without a warrent or any due process.

Where was this arm waiving when Bush was in office? Obama isn't nearly as left as a lot of Democrats would like, but so long as he's got a D next to his name he will never ever be conservative enough for the ever more right leaning GOP.

It's time to get the hell over it and get to work on jobs and the economy rather than partisan grandstanding, obstructionism and bullshit finger pointing.
ms_maree 27th-Jun-2012 09:27 pm (UTC)
Yes...nobody disputes that Bush was a crap leader. But, he's no longer President. So while Obama continues to do dodgy things people are going to be critical. There are always worse people, so what? That argument is getting less relevant as time goes by.

It's time to get the hell over it and get to work on jobs and the economy rather than partisan grandstanding

Just so you know, the Republicans don't care if Obama goes around and assasinates 'alleged' terrorists without trial in foreign countries, especially if they are muslim, even if they are American. The Republicans would cheer if they could, but they have been very muted on this. The only thing the Republicans hate about the whole drone fiasco and that they have been vocal about, is that it was leaked, which means Obama is crap with security.

That's something that Stewart fun of a little while back:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/14/jon-stewart-news-leaks-drones-video_n_1596361.html

The only people who are critical that Obama is killing people without trial are human rights agencies and the media and the odd liberal progressive.
tiddlywinks103 27th-Jun-2012 01:26 am (UTC)
This is the main reason my mother kinda hates him. Also because she wanted Hilary.
ms_maree 27th-Jun-2012 01:32 am (UTC)
Does she think that Hilary would have done any differently?
tiddlywinks103 27th-Jun-2012 01:36 am (UTC)
Yep, political experience is a big thing with her, and I agree at this point, though I'm not as angry/enraged as she is about it. Also the factoring in of a woman in the White House not being called "First Lady".
ms_maree 27th-Jun-2012 01:41 am (UTC)
Interesting, I wonder if that's why we get to hear about tensions between Clinton and Obama.
tiddlywinks103 27th-Jun-2012 01:47 am (UTC)
Maybe. I mean, Hilary obviously knows how to play the political game, and Obama has shown that he really doesn't, and it's probably frustrating for her to watch, deep down...
ms_maree 27th-Jun-2012 01:51 am (UTC)
It could also be that Obama's action might be undermining her work in foreign affairs.

Of course, this all pure speculation and the situation is probably more complex (ie, I feel Pakistan is complicit with many things), but it would be hard to be diplomatic and smooth over things while Obama is going around and bombing civilians in other nations.

If only to be a fly on the wall.
fornikate 27th-Jun-2012 04:22 am (UTC)
yes bc it's that easy for obama to repeal all of gwb's fuckups, what with a repub house
ms_maree 27th-Jun-2012 04:29 am (UTC)
Since Obama has been president the Drone attacks has increased 30 fold. Could you explain to me how the Repulicans managed to push Obama into that?
fornikate 27th-Jun-2012 04:36 am (UTC)
the drone attacks *have

*Republicans

as i'm not privy to top secret war details, i'm not qualified to evaluate that one. and neither are you.
ms_maree 27th-Jun-2012 04:39 am (UTC)
Well, using your logic you aren't qualified to evaluate or judge Bush's actions. Because most of his actions are still 'secret war details'.
fornikate 27th-Jun-2012 04:39 am (UTC)
i'm perfectly qualified to evaluate many of gwb's other actions. so are you.
ms_maree 27th-Jun-2012 04:43 am (UTC)
Good for you.
fornikate 27th-Jun-2012 04:43 am (UTC)
thanks! high five!!!
ms_maree 27th-Jun-2012 04:32 am (UTC)
And while I'm on topic, could you explain to me how the Republicans forced Obama to assasinate an American citizen. These are powers that Bush gained for the presidential position, but I'm curious as to your views on how the Republicans forced Obama to use the same powers to assasinate an American citizen without trial?

Edited at 2012-06-27 04:35 am (UTC)
fornikate 27th-Jun-2012 04:37 am (UTC)
*assassinate

whom are you referring to?
ms_maree 27th-Jun-2012 04:39 am (UTC)
Did you read the article?
fornikate 27th-Jun-2012 04:41 am (UTC)
yes, did you? are you referring to someone specific? because otherwise, it's not an assassination.
fornikate 27th-Jun-2012 04:43 am (UTC)
oh you mean the terrorist Anwar al-Awlaki? lol, nvm
lafinjack 27th-Jun-2012 08:06 pm (UTC)
Since we're correcting things:

*person who talked to terrorists Anwar al-Awlaki
fornikate 27th-Jun-2012 08:10 pm (UTC)
wasn't he the leader of a jihadist group?
circumambulate 27th-Jun-2012 05:07 am (UTC)
These aren't laws, these are executive privileges asserted by the Office of President. He could stop doing those things any time he chose.
fornikate 27th-Jun-2012 03:03 pm (UTC)
the Patriot Act is not an executive privilege. that is where most of the things this post refers to originate from.
awfulbliss 27th-Jun-2012 04:48 am (UTC)
It is pretty obvious to anyone whose head isn't completely in the sand that Obama is your standard-issue partisan hack politician at this point on a number of issues. Some simply can't bring themselves to admit it after eight years calling Bush an evil, murderous war criminal who ripped the Constitution to pieces on a daily basis now that Obama has continued the same policies and even gone as far to offer strong defenses of them when challenged.
fornikate 27th-Jun-2012 04:56 am (UTC)
i don't disagree, but it seems many people seem to have this idea that the president can do whatever he wants re: current laws. however, that is not the case.
hinoema 27th-Jun-2012 05:09 am (UTC)
... almost the entire Bush-era wartime architecture has endured.

Just a thought, but does anyone think an apparatus that size begins and ends, or is even significantly controlled by, a President?
circumambulate 27th-Jun-2012 05:12 am (UTC)
Yes, and so should you - very little military action is under the control of congress, it's under the control of the President and his Cabinet. The worst Congress can do is not fund those actions, or hold some hearing if they believe a law has been broken. These are Executive actions that Obama could end at any time of his choosing. I don't necessarily believe that that's the right action, in some cases, but you certainly can't dispute that they are nearly all things that he campaigned against.
hinoema 27th-Jun-2012 05:26 am (UTC)
I'm not referring to immediate direction, though; I'm looking more at the power behind the huge structure that is the military industrial complex. Saying a president completely directs or controls that seems like saying they can control a train- sure, the engineer may go where they say to, but the tracks were laid down long before that.

(I don't think Bush Jr had that much significant control either, tbh. Cheney, maybe.)

Edited at 2012-06-27 05:27 am (UTC)
circumambulate 27th-Jun-2012 05:31 am (UTC)
ummm, yes he does, he's the Commander in Chief. Congress can grow the military and its budgets to their hearts content, as long as the President doesn't veto the budget, but only the President can direct their actions.

I'm kinda baffled that people are trying to find an out for him on this - I'm a huge Obama fan, and support most of his actions, but I also believed that he's overstepped his authority, as Bush did before him, and whether he did or not, this was a primary campaign point for him. At BEST you could label him naive.
ms_maree 27th-Jun-2012 05:40 am (UTC)
I really don't get the impression that Obama is naive.
hinoema 27th-Jun-2012 06:15 am (UTC)
ummm, yes he does, he's the Commander in Chief. Congress can grow the military and its budgets to their hearts content, as long as the President doesn't veto the budget, but only the President can direct their actions.

I know that, too. I'm just saying that as a monolith. the MI likely has more autonomous power than people think. And I'm not trying to give Obama any outs; just saying that I *also* think the military is quite capable of taking action that may not be strictly in line with official sanction.
ms_maree 27th-Jun-2012 05:31 am (UTC)
I read a couple of articles comparing Obama to Cheney over the last few months, this one for instance.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-t-klare/obama-energy-policy_b_1615472.html
ms_maree 27th-Jun-2012 05:13 am (UTC)
Well, in one thing, at least we know, (reliable reports) say that he has absolute control over the kill-list for drone attacks. The New York times have reported that he has a weekly meeting which he presides over and personally oversees the program and who it targets.

The other things, I cannot say. But I'm sure he has some say over Gitmo, and he certainly has a say over presidential privilege and how much he exercises it.
crossfire 27th-Jun-2012 05:51 pm (UTC)
Legitimate criticisms. But I'm still gonna vote for him because Mitt Romney.
lafinjack 27th-Jun-2012 08:07 pm (UTC)
Unfortunately.
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