ONTD Political

Missouri to vote on prayer amendment

12:10 pm - 08/04/2012
Missourians will vote on Tuesday (Aug. 7) on a proposed amendment to the state constitution that supporters say would protect residents' right to pray in public, and if a recent poll is any indication, it could pass by a mammoth margin.

Supporters say the so-called "right to pray" ballot measure — known as Amendment 2 — better defines Missourians' First Amendment rights and will help to protect the state's Christians, about 80 percent of the population, who they say are under siege in the public square.

Opponents, meanwhile, say that the religious protections Amendment 2 would offer are already guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and the U.S. Constitution, and that it will open the door to all manner of unintended and costly consequences including endless taxpayer-funded lawsuits.

State Rep. Chris Kelly, a Democrat who opposed the original legislation, called Amendment 2 "a jobs bill for lawyers."

The measure has already provoked lawsuits over its ballot wording, which plaintiffs argue is a Trojan horse attack on the state's 200-year-old protections for religious minorities, public education and church-state separation. Those lawsuits failed in Missouri's courts, and the measure's ballot wording will stand as written.

A poll by the St. Louis Post-Dispatch of 625 registered Missouri voters found that if the primary had been held last week, 82 percent would have voted in favor of Amendment 2, while just 14 percent would have voted "no," with 4 percent undecided.

State Rep. Mike McGhee, a Republican, unsuccessfully sponsored the legislation that led to Amendment 2 for years before seeing it pass in the 2011 legislative session.

Last May, he told the Post-Dispatch that if the measure passes it would "send a message" that "it's OK to read a Bible in study hall" or "to pray briefly before a City Council meeting."

McGhee's pastor, the Rev. Terry Hodges of First Baptist Church in Odessa, said he had spoken with McGhee through the years about the legislation. He said that if Amendment 2 passes, it will "level the playing field."

Hodges said Christians "enjoyed home-field advantage" for the country's first 150 years. "That's changed, and now there's a hostility toward Christians," he said.


Karen Aroesty of the Anti-Defamation League of Missouri and Southern Illinois said the 4 percent of Missouri believers who are non-Christian would find that hard to believe.

"That the majority is claiming to be persecuted is simply absurd," Aroesty said. "It boggles the mind that they say they are under attack."

Opponents say wording in the amendment that would "ensure that any person shall have the right to pray individually or corporately in a private or public setting" without disturbing the peace or disrupting a public meeting, opens the door to sectarian prayers at governmental meetings.

Groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union and Americans United for Separation of Church and State have questioned how disturbance or disruption would later be defined. What if one person's "right to pray" intrudes on another's right to abstain from prayer, or to pray according to the tenets of his or her own faith?

Charles Haynes, a senior scholar with the nonpartisan First Amendment Center in Washington, said while the proposed amendment "reaffirms legislative prayers for government bodies, it doesn't make clear that if those prayers are regularly of one particular faith, the practice would likely be struck down as unconstitutional."


Some of the most discussed pieces of the proposed amendment deal with education and students' rights. One section says that "no student shall be compelled to perform or participate in academic assignments or educational presentations that violate his or her religious beliefs."

Josh Rosenau, programs and policy director for the National Center for Science Education, said allowing students to opt out of assignments would be problematic.

"What if a student says that long division is against his religion? Would he be accommodated by his math teacher? How?" he asked. "It's clearly a frivolous objection, but do we want the state deciding whose religion is frivolous and whose sincere?"

Missouri's four Catholic bishops issued a statement of support on July 20, and John Yeats, executive director of the Missouri Baptist Convention, said the vote on Amendment 2 was about "democratic clarity."

But Episcopal Bishop Wayne Smith of Missouri said prayer in public schools "becomes the vehicle for a sectarian agenda, typically Christian and typically Protestant, in violation of the no-establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment." Leading Jewish and Muslim groups also oppose the measure.

Most outside experts say Amendment 2 is bound for the courtroom, with Haynes saying the "result will be a mess."

"If this were to pass, and it probably will, it will surely be challenged in federal court," said David Kimball, a political science professor at the University of Missouri-St. Louis. "And the language seems to me so hackneyed that federal courts will strike this down pretty quickly."

source
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zeonchar 4th-Aug-2012 06:29 pm (UTC)
Hodges said Christians "enjoyed home-field advantage" for the country's first 150 years. "That's changed, and now there's a hostility toward Christians," he said.

Gee, I wonder why this could be?

Also, the majority claiming discrimination is ridiculous.
coraki 4th-Aug-2012 10:23 pm (UTC)
MTE. I left church due to the intolerance of those around me.

I was at work a couple weeks ago and a guy tried to hand a religious pamphlet to me. I told him I'm unable to accept anything from customers or I'll get fired (which is very true). He told me what is was. I thought later to myself. There really isn't any other religion out there that interacts with the public like Christians do.

I don't mind having a conversation, like with my co-worker who is a Sikh. He's never shoved pamphlets in my hands or tell me what I believe is wrong.

Edited at 2012-08-04 10:23 pm (UTC)
perthro 4th-Aug-2012 06:29 pm (UTC)
Matthew 6:1 "Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven."

Matthew 6:5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
kishmet 4th-Aug-2012 06:39 pm (UTC)
mte

It's so weird to me how many Christians in particular have no idea what their own holy book says
kitanabychoice 4th-Aug-2012 06:31 pm (UTC)
I don't understand this "need" Christians have to publicly announce their religion to all and sundry. You are not being persecuted because I don't want to have to listen to/see you pray while I'm eating a hamburger or something, jfc.
romp 4th-Aug-2012 08:19 pm (UTC)
The evangelicals are told they must evangelize by their ministers. Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses have it as a requirement, yeah? And others are still told they should go out and testify. When I first learned of religions that do NOT evangelize (like Judaism), I thought that was the height of civility.
fofomazuzu 4th-Aug-2012 06:35 pm (UTC)
I looked at the long form version of this on ballotpedia and this all does seem rather redundant and more of a ~sending a message~ about religious liberty and the evils of secularism.
brother_dour 6th-Aug-2012 04:39 am (UTC)
It's all about posturing and making sure you get to be an incumbent.
jessicamariek 4th-Aug-2012 06:38 pm (UTC)
christian_oppression_pie
tigerdreams 4th-Aug-2012 09:25 pm (UTC)
Excellent macro and icon.
tinylegacies 4th-Aug-2012 06:40 pm (UTC)
Wait, is it really a thing with people being told they aren't allowed to pray in public?

Or is this bitterness over not being able to force other people to pray?
maladaptive 4th-Aug-2012 07:09 pm (UTC)
A lot of people seem to believe they're not allowed to pray in public or school-- like the law stops kids from bowing their heads and praying while on campus when the law says "officials can't lead students in prayer, or get a student to lead a prayer with the school sanctioning the action."
iamrosalita 4th-Aug-2012 06:43 pm (UTC)
So, if this bill passes, Christians won't mind it if Muslims roll out the prayer rugs in public, right?
tsaraven 4th-Aug-2012 06:45 pm (UTC)
MTE
kishmet 4th-Aug-2012 06:44 pm (UTC)
"it's OK [...] to pray briefly before a City Council meeting."

Not out loud it's not

This is what they really want because no one's stopping them from reading their holy book on their own or praying silently. They want to fucking inject their religion OUT LOUD into everything including government, and that's not leveling the playing field, that's creating a theocracy that shuts out everyone who's not a Christian

which, again, I get is their point but fucking hell
layweed 4th-Aug-2012 07:03 pm (UTC)
Who exactly are you undersiege FROM when you are 80% of the population and probably 100% of the government?
booksforlunch 4th-Aug-2012 07:13 pm (UTC)
This. 1000000 X this.

lovedforaday 4th-Aug-2012 07:14 pm (UTC)
Apparently Amendment 2 is needed because of a few instances Mike McGhee claims happened in school when good little Christian kids were made to stop praying and another instance where a college student refused to do an assignment for religious reasons:

McGhee said such specific language is being used to ensure the Missouri Constitution matches the U.S. Constitution. He added that issues persist in Missouri despite the U.S. Constitution's superiority. McGhee specifically referenced a situation involving Missouri State University student Emily Brooker.

Brooker was studying at the School of Social Work when professor Frank Kauffman assigned her and other students to write a letter to the state legislature supporting adoption rights for same-sex couples. Brooker did not complete the assignment on the grounds that it conflicted with her religious beliefs, which do not condone a gay family structure.

Brooker was sanctioned by the professor for violating standards of ethicss in social work education and was questioned by an ethics committee about her religious beliefs and competency to practice social work.


http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2012/08/03/amendment-2-secures-rights-pray-schools-and-government-settings/

Those poor Christians.
ebay313 5th-Aug-2012 02:28 am (UTC)
Yep, social work is always persecuting the Christians.
Of course many, possibly most, social workers I know (and I know a lot as a social worker who currently works in a University School of Social Work) are Christian, and quite a few even cite Christianity as the reason they became social workers- yet they don't use their religion to discriminate against clients, and spread homopbobia and hate.
But clearly social work is just anti-christian.
hoodoo 4th-Aug-2012 07:34 pm (UTC)
will help to protect the state's Christians, about 80 percent of the population, who they say are under siege in the public square.
80 PERCENT HOW IS THAT OPPRESSED

Edited at 2012-08-04 07:35 pm (UTC)
erunamiryene 4th-Aug-2012 07:38 pm (UTC)
THEY'RE MISSING TWENTY PERCENT.
quizzicalsphinx 4th-Aug-2012 07:38 pm (UTC)
And unemployed Missourians eagerly await all the jobs this amendment will surely create!
brother_dour 6th-Aug-2012 04:43 am (UTC)
Well, it'll create work for some lawyers.
erunamiryene 4th-Aug-2012 07:38 pm (UTC)
I'm pretty sure no one has taken away anyone's right to pray. You just can't make everyone else stop what they're doing and pray with you.

Dear American Fundies: YOU ARE NOT PERSECUTED. SIT DOWN.

Also, I'd love to see if this "law" would pass the Muslim test, cause fifteen bucks says it wouldn't.

"no student shall be compelled to perform or participate in academic assignments or educational presentations that violate his or her religious beliefs."

Oh JFC. also, I SO would have said that math is against my religion.
tinylegacies 4th-Aug-2012 10:15 pm (UTC)
I SO would have said that math is against my religion

LOL you and about 90% of the population if the student body I work with is anything to go by!
romp 4th-Aug-2012 08:28 pm (UTC)
4 percent of Missouri believers who are non-Christian

DAMN. I don't think I realized the midwest was *that* homogenous. D:
coraki 4th-Aug-2012 10:38 pm (UTC)
Well...for Missouri they're most likely all in St. Louis and a bit in Kansas City.
zemi_chan I wish I had something more intelligent to contribute to this discussion4th-Aug-2012 08:33 pm (UTC)
Unnecessary amendment is unnecessary.
autumnleaving Re: I wish I had something more intelligent to contribute to this discussion5th-Aug-2012 02:57 am (UTC)
Don't give it to them, bb. They don't respond to logic and intelligence.
adelheide 4th-Aug-2012 08:43 pm (UTC)
No longer getting your way all the time is not persecution. It's just not getting your way all the time.

This imaginary "war on Christianity" just boggles me.
nadejda 4th-Aug-2012 08:59 pm (UTC)
I think they will get something that they didn't pray about- something like this www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9vm4bv6zk4
christoph 4th-Aug-2012 09:07 pm (UTC)
Not even a little bit surprised that this is in Missouri. rme at my home state yet again.

Hodges said Christians "enjoyed home-field advantage" for the country's first 150 years. "That's changed, and now there's a hostility toward Christians," he said.

Poor, poor oppressed christians. How will you cope?
thelilyqueen 4th-Aug-2012 10:51 pm (UTC)
I'd like to stick a temporary tattoo on the lot of them saying 'Possible Weakening Of Privilege =/= Persecution'.
nene13 4th-Aug-2012 09:51 pm (UTC)
The idea that Christianity had (still has) home-field advantage is really unsettling in the sense of a particular religion having an "advantage." Your "advantage" justified slavery, it led to the Salem Witch Trials, nativism, prohibition, McCarthyism, the Scopes Trial, the KKK, and the near annihilation/assimilation of native cultures/peoples.

Your religious advantage should be used for the betterment for society as its fundamentals instruct you to. You know, like when people built settlement houses during the industrial Age or abolition movements.
adinasauce 4th-Aug-2012 10:52 pm (UTC)
Most everyone in the comments has the WTF covered... so I just have to say... I am so fucking glad that MN only allows constitutional amendments to be voted on in general elections. There's just something shady as fuck about having them be part of a primary election, especially if you consider primary election demographics... :\
moonbladem 4th-Aug-2012 11:17 pm (UTC)
...and will help to protect the state's Christians, about 80 percent of the population, who they say are under siege in the public square.

Really? You're under siege? The 80% of Christians in your state? *looks around* Where? And from whom?

McGhee's pastor, the Rev. Terry Hodges of First Baptist Church in Odessa, said he had spoken with McGhee through the years about the legislation. He said that if Amendment 2 passes, it will "level the playing field."

Level what playing field? All I can see is that you're trying to make it legal to mow over other people's beliefs. You can't talk about "leveling the playing field" when you make up 80% of Missouri's population.

"If this were to pass, and it probably will, it will surely be challenged in federal court," said David Kimball, a political science professor at the University of Missouri-St. Louis. "And the language seems to me so hackneyed that federal courts will strike this down pretty quickly."

I really do hope that happens. This whole thing is simply ridiculous. Separation of church and state is what actually ensures that there's a level playing field for everyone. What you're doing is establishing a theocracy, which will create a climate of intolerance and divisiveness towards anyone who isn't Christian.

I think this article deserves a "god save us from your followers" tag.
brother_dour 6th-Aug-2012 01:31 am (UTC)
I don't see it going unchallenged, that's for sure. And I would think that it would be struck down eventually, especially if a Supreme Court justice has ever argued successfully that giving demographic X more rights does not equal a diminishing of demographic Y's rights.

Because it doesn't. Civil rights are not zero-sum.
thecityofdis 5th-Aug-2012 12:02 am (UTC)
Supporters say the so-called "right to pray" ballot measure

and this is where i stopped giving a fuck

god, missouri, you can go shave your back now
mskye 5th-Aug-2012 12:24 am (UTC)
my eyeballs hurt from rolling them too hard
tabaqui 5th-Aug-2012 12:36 am (UTC)
Once again, my state making me ashamed and pissed off. Jayzus.

Had some sort of god-botherer at the front door today. While the dog barked hysterically, he started flapping a bible and a pamphlet in my face. I said that i 'am not a christian, nor do i wish to be, you have a nice day'.

Oooh, the *look* he gave me. My daughter expressed glee at the thought of him scraping the bumper of his car on the way out of the driveway.

*it's very steep and meets the street at a bad angle, so if you don't come in and out on the diagonal, you wreak holy hell on your muffler/bumper*
layweed 5th-Aug-2012 12:43 am (UTC)
Ughhhhhhh smh @ those people. Back in Singapore, we used to hang a cross that was a gift from my grandmother (who was p. devout) to my mom (who wasn't at all). We weren't a religious family at all and the only reason the cross was ever there was because it was a gift from my grandmother. Of course, everytime we opened the door and some bible thumper saw it they would immediately assume OH I SEE YOU KNOW THE WORD OF CHRIST or something like that. SMH.
autumnleaving 5th-Aug-2012 02:56 am (UTC)
Okay, so I'd also like for my Muslim, Indian, and Buddhist friends to be able to do their prayers/mantras openly and with as much freedom too.

...No? Of course not. >:(

Hostility towards Christians? Oh lol
brother_dour 6th-Aug-2012 01:35 am (UTC)
That wouldn't bother me at all. Is anyone actively stopping them? Because, if so, the ACLU really needs to be on that, seriously. That is in no way inclusive or equal.
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