ONTD Political

France kicks out Roma, again

12:52 pm - 08/13/2012
Roma in France’s northern city of Lille were expelled from their camps over the weekend as police dismantled the settlements, despite promises by President Francois Hollande to end the practice.

The police raids started early Thursday (9 August) morning with 240 others, previously evicted from camps in Lyon, "voluntarily" leaving on flights to Romania on the same day. Each adult returned to Romania received €300 and each child €100.

France's interior minister Manuel Valls claims the camps are unsanitary and pose a public health risk. The minister said each individual’s case was evaluated by French authorities before being returned to Romania, reported Reuters.

Rights organisations say France must abide by its commitments under international human rights laws to provide alternative accommodation and that it must respect the European Union rules on freedom of movement.

Veronika Szente Goldston, Europe and Central Asia advocacy director at Human Rights Watch (HRW), said the raids had left 60 children without any homes and that France’s latest evictions are contrary to Hollande’s pledge in April to abolish discriminatory measures against Roma populations.

“Hollande’s promises to end discrimination against Roma couldn’t ring more hollow in the wake of this week’s events,” Szente Goldston said in a statement.

HRW says France’s 2011 immigration law specifically targets eastern European Roma and lists, as grounds for expulsion, repeated short stays and the intent to benefit from its social welfare system.

The rights group claim authorities are evicting the Roma on the “mere presumption” that they could eventually receive the social benefits.

Some people have questioned whether or not the returns are voluntary.

The Budapest-based European Roma Rights Centre (ERRC), an organisation that monitors the rights of Roma, said in a statement that the “repatriations are carried out following forced evictions, under situations of high stress for individuals and communities, and as such cannot be considered voluntary".

A similar campaign to expel the Roma to Romania and Bulgaria in 2010 under Nicolas Sarkozy led to a diplomatic row with Brussels once it was revealed that the French were officially targeting the ethnic group.

"Discrimination on the basis of ethnic origin or race has no place in Europe," said EU justice commissioner Viviane Reding at the time.

Nearly 10,000 were removed from the territory in a campaign that started in August 2010, according to the ERRC. The human rights watchdog, the Council of Europe, later noted that the voluntary returns amounted to forced collective expulsion.

For its part, the European Commission said it is closely monitoring the evictions and has requested further information from the French authorities to ensure they are complying to EU rules.

EU Observer
chaya 13th-Aug-2012 01:35 pm (UTC)
Got some bolding and <&v> errors.
premor 13th-Aug-2012 03:29 pm (UTC)
aw damnit, fixed now
evilgmbethy 13th-Aug-2012 02:52 pm (UTC)
my boss went off on this incredibly bigoted rant about not renting (hotel) rooms to "gypsies" (her word, not mine) about a week ago. I was so floored by it because it's not a prejudice I've heard much about in the US.

btw, I'm giving my two weeks notice next week and I'd really like to know if anyone knows where I can report my boss for telling me not to rent rooms to a specific ethnic group? I feel terrible for not reporting it already but I'm so scared that I'll get in trouble and lose a shift (or more) between now and my last day, and I need every penny to pay my rent next month, but I do want to report her, because it was absolutely appalling the way she went on about Roma people.
lightbird777 13th-Aug-2012 03:08 pm (UTC)
Maybe you can start with reporting your boss to the Southern Poverty Law Center. Also maybe the ACLU.
evilgmbethy 13th-Aug-2012 03:32 pm (UTC)
I don't know why I didn't think of those myself, thank you!
thesilverymoon 13th-Aug-2012 03:26 pm (UTC)
Is there anyone above her? If so, you could look into reporting it to them. But I agree with the poster above--Southern Poverty Law Center and the ACLU are good places to go for help.
evilgmbethy 13th-Aug-2012 03:32 pm (UTC)
unfortunately, she is the owner of the property, but they are franchisees, so maybe it would be good to notify the corporation they are franchising from.
chaya 13th-Aug-2012 03:37 pm (UTC)
Couldn't hurt. She could potentially damage their brand with bullshit like that.
redstar826 13th-Aug-2012 08:47 pm (UTC)
this might also apply to you for witnessing such an action? I don't know. You might want to seek out your state's Civil Rights agency first

Individuals who believe that they have been victims of housing discrimination in public accommodations, such as a restaurant or hotel, may contact the Housing and Civil Enforcement Section. You may file your own lawsuit in federal court or state court and may have some rights under other federal laws, state laws, or local ordinance. You should consult with your local or state civil rights enforcement agency.
U.S. Department of Justice
Civil Rights Division
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Housing and Civil Enforcement Section, NWB
Washington, D.C. 20530

http://www.justice.gov/crt/complaint/#six
(202) 514-4713
evilgmbethy 13th-Aug-2012 08:51 pm (UTC)
thank you! I cannot wait to leave this job. I've sensed before that my bosses are bigoted toward black people, but I never had any concrete proof of the discrimination. Since this is a situation where she flat out told me not to rent to a specific ethnic group, it's really the only concrete thing I can report, and I want to do it.
poetic_pixie_13 13th-Aug-2012 03:35 pm (UTC)


'Voluntarily' leaving. Yeah huh.
yeats 13th-Aug-2012 03:35 pm (UTC)
fucking awful -- come the fuck on, hollande.
tabaqui 13th-Aug-2012 04:53 pm (UTC)
And what happens to them once they get to Romania? Are they 'legal' in any way, or does Romania put them in jail or detention?

WTF. If where they're living is 'unsanitary', how about help them make it up to code? What a bunch of crap.
premor 13th-Aug-2012 04:58 pm (UTC)
They're Romanian citizens.
bleakwinters 13th-Aug-2012 05:27 pm (UTC)
They are legal, yes as they're Romanian citizens. However, they are heavily discriminated against. They will have trouble finding work or putting their children in school. There are no resources specifically tailored towards Roma needs, because a lot of the population feels they "besmirch" the Romanian name by begging and stealing.

There is one area in Moldova where a mayor won an election by 90%+ because he created a camp for Roma people in an abandoned factory. Unsanitary conditions and the appalling state of the camp, but he's segregating them and to many, that's a good thing.

The fact that they're basically paying them to leave sickens me. These are poor people, with little access to basic facilities, and the money goes a long way in Romania. Instead of there being safeguards in place, they'll just go back to France and repeat the cycle in another 4-5 months.
tabaqui 13th-Aug-2012 06:23 pm (UTC)
I'm glad they're at least recognized as citizens but holy fuck. What a mess. I know if people think they're being stolen from/preyed upon, it can make them act like utter fuckheads, but if you marginalize people, how in fuck are they supposed to get anywhere in the world? People don't beg or steal (if they do that at all) because it's *fun*.

Yeesh.
cecilia_weasley 14th-Aug-2012 02:40 am (UTC)
Thank you. Exactly.

Not to mention these people are EU citizens. So France has no right to "kick them out" or to claim that they're there illegally. Unless France revoked its own EU membership.
pretty_angel 14th-Aug-2012 06:37 am (UTC)
"However, they are heavily discriminated against. They will have trouble finding work or putting their children in school. There are no resources specifically tailored towards Roma needs, because a lot of the population feels they "besmirch" the Romanian name by begging and stealing."

Seriously, I'll never understand this stupid behaviour! It's all "THEY'RE OUTCASTS - THEREFORE WE'RE CASTING THEM OUT EVEN MORE!" instead of, you know, actually solving problems. Ugh.
13chapters 13th-Aug-2012 08:14 pm (UTC)
And what happens to them once they get to Romania?

They're treated like shit.

I went to Romania a few years ago (I lived in Bulgaria, so this is much less of an exciting distant adventure than it might sound at first, ha) and on the bus into Bucharest I chatted with a Romanian girl who spoke great English. She seemed super nice and told me about stuff I should do while i was in Bucharest. But when we arrived, she took my arm and said "be very careful, there are so many gypsies here. Many more than in Bulgaria. You have to watch out for them."

TBH of course I was completely desensitized to this after living in Bulgaria. I have also been warned to watch out for gypsies in Sarajevo, and various places in Bulgaria. I was once pickpocketed in Sofia and when I went to file a police report, the policewoman handling the case asked me like five times if I had seen any tsigani around. I kept saying no (absolutely true) and she just continued pressing me on the point. (This is really only the tip of the iceberg of shit I saw on this issue so I'll just leave it at "it's bad".)
tabaqui 13th-Aug-2012 08:31 pm (UTC)
Bleh. I hate that kind of ingrained bias. It's just self-perpetuating cycle of hate and abuse.
13chapters 13th-Aug-2012 08:39 pm (UTC)
It really is. It's very frustrating, and although it's tempting (for us as Americans) to draw parallels to racism in the US, it really isn't very revealing of how race and racism operate in Europe. I could write a whole dissertation on my observations but it would take forever and be boring so I won't.
happythree 14th-Aug-2012 10:29 am (UTC)
I can't even mention visiting Romania without people jumping on me about "the gypsies." People who haven't even been act like I'm off the wall for going because they've heard about gypsies. I spent three months in Bucharest, and I say bullshit.
bacchae23 13th-Aug-2012 05:09 pm (UTC)
I've really got mixed feelings about Romas in France. Being an American who only stayed with a host family for a few months, I obvs. can't get on a soapbox about it, but I feel the dynamics of the relationship -- like that with the Muslim population in France -- is really weird. And something we Americans don't fully understand. I don't think that justifies douchebaggery, but I think that makes it harder than being black and white.

And, unfortunately, there is a block of the Roma population that does shit that really doesn't help other Roma just going about their lives. Paris -- despite being a shitty town in the first place -- has a large population of Roma who go around panhandling and pickpocketing. And it's not necessarily a generalization; I saw it. Three times in the span of three days, we saw two kids act crippled for money and then -- the next day, be doing little stunts and shit handicap free. And they were the same kids (tourists aren't terribly sentient, so I think they thought they were golden). (also: we were down by the Louvre for a good three and a half days, allowing us to see that pattern.

I guess I don't totally understand the dynamic of the relationship, nor the history. I do know from what I saw in Paris left me unimpressed and kind of scratching my head, but that doesn't mean I excuse douchebaggery.
mingemonster 13th-Aug-2012 07:17 pm (UTC)
Your comment is really gross. The post has nothing to do with Romani people commiting crimes of any kind, so why are you bringing it up? And it is black and white. This isn't about preventing begging (oh, the horror), this is racism and bigotry. And even if some Romani people do commit crimes, using that to judge the entire population is racism.
premor 13th-Aug-2012 07:54 pm (UTC)
I guess I don't totally understand the dynamic of the relationship, nor the history.

You can tell.
_cheshire 13th-Aug-2012 08:20 pm (UTC)
you realize panhandling is not an exclusively Roma act? Hell, I imagine there were probably a number of white buskers out and about, but somehow the Roma are always the ones who are deemed to be lazy scroungers while the others get off scott-free.

Furthermore, instead of being a douche about Roma ask yourself why is there a segment of the Roma population that resorts to begging? .... Roma are discriminated against in pretty much all aspects---denied equal access to housing, government assistance, healthcare, education, the list goes on. It's pretty much socially acceptable to spew racist and bigoted language about the Roma across parts of Western & Eastern Europe; hell, racist crimes against the Roma are depressingly common too (there's a recent post about an off-duty police officer murdering a Roma family for no reason other than, oh they're Roma). ....And yet, people just love to go on about how they saw this one Roma person this one time do something not 100% morally right, implying they deserve their shitty treatment.





Edited at 2012-08-13 08:24 pm (UTC)
violetrose 13th-Aug-2012 10:29 pm (UTC)
Well I am European, and can safely say that Roma are treated like shit. It is black and white.

I wouldn't be surprised one of the main reasons many of them beg and panhandle is because of poverty, brought on by lack of equal educational, employment and housing rights.
yamamanama 13th-Aug-2012 07:14 pm (UTC)
€300 isn't an offer, it's an insult!
premor 13th-Aug-2012 07:50 pm (UTC)
Actually, as bleakwinters said, it goes a long way in Romania - it's almost the average monthly net salary.
yamamanama 14th-Aug-2012 12:40 am (UTC)
If I was a Roma, I wouldn't go to Eastern Europe if they made me Caliph.
yamamanama 14th-Aug-2012 01:56 am (UTC)
They're treated pretty horribly there, aren't they?
cecilia_weasley 14th-Aug-2012 02:44 am (UTC)
Yes, quite. Blech.
cecilia_weasley 14th-Aug-2012 02:44 am (UTC)
I can vouch for that. /Romanian

But the racism. Oh dear lord. :(
13chapters 13th-Aug-2012 08:23 pm (UTC)
tbh I earned the equivalent of 200 euro/month in bulgaria (which is economically similar to romania; I've been to romania and the prices were about what I would expect to see in bulgaria) and it was a decent salary, especially for someone who lived in a small town, as I did. 300 euros is a pretty good chunk of money in that part of the world.

Not that it makes this okay, of course.
cecilia_weasley 14th-Aug-2012 02:41 am (UTC)
Hey France, I see your government is still made up of a bunch of assholes.
girly123 14th-Aug-2012 05:07 pm (UTC)
Lol, for real.

I'm bringing this up the next time someone tries to blame France's racism on Sarkozy.
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