ONTD Political

Poly-Baiting: Why We Need a More Inclusive LGBTQ Movement

12:39 pm - 08/20/2012

Poly-Baiting: Why We Need a More Inclusive LGBTQ Movement

by Vivienne Chen

Anti-LGBTQ campaigners have often used the issue of polyamory–or rather, a twisted media presentation of “polygamy,” which is distinct from ethical nonmonogamy and polyamory–as a slippery slope argument against LGBTQ equality, particularly when it comes to marriage.

The worse thing is? LGBTQ activists left and right take the bait.

Just take a minute and watch this short video. Trigger Warning: Rick Santorum. (As usual, santorum is full of shit.)




Notice the crowd’s reaction to his statements.

Santorum: Are we saying that everyone has the right to marry?
Crowd: Yes!
Santorum: So anyone can marry anybody else?
Crowd: Yes!
Santorum: So anybody can marry several people?
Crowd: *mutterings and incoherent babbles of ‘No!’*

Cut to Santorum getting booed off the stage.


The problem is Santorum is right. Did I just say that? (This is where I say things that not everyone in the LGBTQ community agrees with, so my post should not be used as a monolithic representation of LGBTQ activism.)



He’s right in the sense that once we realize it’s stupid to keep any two loving, consenting adults apart, we may start wondering whether it’s equally stupid to keep 3 or more loving, consenting adults apart. However, he’s totally wrong in assuming that the latter is necessarily a bad thing, and thus deserves to be booed at any opportunity.

But before we go any further, I’d like to clarify that this argument isn’t about marriage. Talking about marriage rights assumes that legal marriage recognition is the goal of most LGBTQ and most polyamorous/nonmonogamous (poly/NM) people, which is simply not true. It also opens the door for discussing the logistical barriers to institutionalizing poly relationships, which is a separate conversation. Instead, I am discussing here the general acceptance in society for the concept of a non-straight or non-monogamous partnership/relationship.

Just as Santorum fears, I believe entirely in the possibility of a “slippery slope” between queer and poly/NM relationship acceptance. However, I challenge the fundamental assumptions underlying the so-called “dangerousness” of this slope. After all, not too long ago in history, a relationship was about the marital union of one man and one man’s property colloquially known as a woman. Then, we as a society redefined relationships between men and women to be about love and commitment as equals, with or without marriage. Now, we are fighting for a genderless distinction.

But if LGBTQ activists continue to say that relationships are really about committing to the people we love regardless of gender, race, creed, etc., then maybe society should allow us to commit to the people (plural) we love. Note the assumption here: I believe it is, in fact, possible for some people to love more than one person.

The fact is that the struggles of the poly/NM community are not unfamiliar to the LGBTQ world. Couples in open relationships have lost their jobs and even custody of their children after people around them outed them as polyamorous. Sound familiar?

By distancing themselves and trying to divorce their struggle from the struggle of the poly/NM community, LGBTQ progressives end up throwing another sexual minority–indeed, a minority within their own minority–under the bus (A significant contingency of the poly/NM community is queer/bi and vice versa). Those who oppose progressive social movements have used this tactic countless times before–divide and conquer. I’d say something trite about how we are only as strong as we are united, but you get the point.

In order to build a more inclusive LGBTQ equality/acceptance movement, we as activists need to learn how to combat the poly-baiting that occurs on the opponent’s side. Regardless of your own personal opinions about the feasibility or acceptability of an open or non-monogamous relationship, we need to have the language to call out anti-equality bigots on their bullshit and false logical assumptions every time they make a “LGBTQ relationships = polyamory (= bestiality = total sexual depravity)” comment.

I offer you this script as only one example of how to respond to someone when they make these claims:

When you try to analogize LGBTQ relationships with multiple relationships, you falsely assume that the idea of polyamory will spark an outrage that will force us to alienate another group. You’re using polyamory as a straw man to avoid dealing with the fact that our Bill of Rights makes it impossible for you to ignore that LGBT relationships are as legitimate as heterosexual relationships.

(Edit: And if they even dare go into the “man on dog” bestiality comparison, please kindly refer them to this graphic, How to Explain Gay Rights to an Idiot.) If you aren’t squeamish about standing behind a poly-inclusive LGBT movement you can also add: “Your belief that LGBTQ equality will lead to acceptance of polyamory is right. It could. And it should.”

Coming soon to EqualWrites: How To Be An Ally to Polyamorous/Non-Monogamous People, and a guide on all the terms Poly/NM people use and what they mean!




source

(OP: I know this is an old article, but since ontd_p has... not done well with poly issues in the past, I thought this might be a good starting point. What do you think? Can LGBTQIA activists and poly activists work together on common issues, or will queer poly people continue to be thrown under the bus? also, tag suggestions very welcome!)


Edited to try and fix html. siiiigh

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rex_dart 20th-Aug-2012 08:28 pm (UTC)
If you aren’t squeamish about standing behind a poly-inclusive LGBT movement

Polyamory does not make one queer any more than asexuality does so what exactly is this person asking for?

This article is really noncommital and wishy-washy and if this person wants to argue that polyamorous people are a marginalized class on par with queer people, they should fucking say it instead of dancing around the issue.
andthelight 20th-Aug-2012 08:31 pm (UTC)
yes to all of this.

/waits for wank and gets popcorn
bleed_peroxide 20th-Aug-2012 08:29 pm (UTC)
Honestly, polyamory shouldn't be as huge of a deal for people as it is. So long as all parties are cool with it and it's all consensual, who cares? It's no worse (to me) than monogamous love.

People just need to get with the fucking times. It's 2012. Why are people still getting all up in others' business about who they love and/or fuck? Unless you're involved, it ain't your business.

I wish the article was a bit more... solid in what it was talking about? It's trying to avoid saying outright that they feel that poly couples are marginalized, which... perhaps they are. They certainly get a lot of flack that monogamous couples don't. Just say it outright.

Edited at 2012-08-20 08:31 pm (UTC)
casketscratcher 20th-Aug-2012 08:33 pm (UTC)
Can LGBTQIA activists and poly activists work together on common issues, or will queer poly people continue to be thrown under the bus?

Sorry, are you suggesting here that queer people are "oppressing" poly people? Or that queer people are somehow oppressing only queer poly people?

Also why is it up to queer people to take up poly activism or whatever? Why is it always up to the marginalised group (see every "if you're a feminist why aren't you fighting for men's rights?" argument ever) to do the activism for everyone?
silver_sandals 20th-Aug-2012 08:46 pm (UTC)
...but... men aren't marginalized. It's not that queer people have to be poly activists, it would just be nice for them not to distance themselves from queer poly people and their goals.
fierceleaf 20th-Aug-2012 08:35 pm (UTC)
I'm neither LGBTQ person nor polygamy person, but I do not understand why polygamy or polyamory are criticized in XXI century. The only reason is that most people are steeped in prejudice.
sesmo 20th-Aug-2012 10:31 pm (UTC)
Because a lot of the history of it is about oppressing women and communities like those crazy Jeffords people. Safe, sane, and consensual poly is OK. Although sorting out custody, taxation, and inheritance in a poly environment will be a fascinating exercise for lawyers.
sparkindarkness 20th-Aug-2012 08:38 pm (UTC)
Oh yeah, straight, cis poly people also jumping under the umbrella

If someone is poly and GBLTQ then great they are part of the umbrella - as GBLTQ people. But straight, cis poly people invoking this:

"LGBTQ progressives end up throwing another sexual minority"

Can get out right now. I am so damn sick of straight, cis people appopriating the GBLTQ movement and beyond sick of straight, cis people desperate to include themselves under the GBLT umbrella.

I'm all in favour of polyamorous relationships and recognition, but I am not in favour of straight, cis people CONTINUALLY pulling this shit. I'm sick of it. Kinky people, Poly people, straight, cis Aesexuals, demisexuals, slashers asnd whole range of people overdosing on straight cis privilege who are DESPERATE to jump on the rainbow train.

And when straight, cis people come to me with their inevitably bullshit statements about my realtionship and the perversity of my love, amazingly enough, my first port of call isn't to respond "that's some really bigoted shit you're saying about me and sounds like more of dehumanising nonsense that leaves us beaten and bloody in the street - but hey, let me talk about this other issue instead". Because this is what this kind of sounds like.

When someone says "your relationship is going to lead to X, Y, Z" I respond with "that doesn't make sense"I'm all for saying "the slippery slope argument is bullshit, I don't care if polyamory is recognised and how dare you compare our relationships to paedophilia, bestiality and incest, you vile bigots" And no, I will be doing MORE than just referring them to a graphic so we can get back to talking about polyamory rather than responding to a homophobic attack

Edited at 2012-08-20 08:40 pm (UTC)
silver_sandals 20th-Aug-2012 08:47 pm (UTC)
Neither me nor the article writer are straight.
evilgmbethy 20th-Aug-2012 08:42 pm (UTC)
holy false equivalency
sephystabbity 20th-Aug-2012 08:45 pm (UTC)
This.
crossfire 20th-Aug-2012 08:55 pm (UTC)
I'm getting the "poly people are queers too" vibe off this article too, and I see I'm not the only one.

I think it's great to acknowledge that some LGBTQ people are poly, but I really don't think that if you're a straight and cisgendered you can appropriate our movement because you're also poly.
rex_dart 20th-Aug-2012 08:57 pm (UTC)
I'm getting the "poly people are queers too" vibe

And not just that: there's also the "it's queer people's responsibility to defend us" rather than "it's the people saying the hurtful things' responsibility to stop being douchebags".
silver_sandals 20th-Aug-2012 09:08 pm (UTC)
Can we not make this all about straight cis poly people though? I read the article as talking about queer poly people. I am a queer poly person and I wanted to talk about how much I hate that conservatives are getting LGB activists to play along with their slippery slope fallacies.
interrobamf 20th-Aug-2012 09:16 pm (UTC)
That queer poly people exist does not automatically make "polyphobia" a queer issue by proxy.

I'm tired of being expected to care about every flavor of sexual expression just because I'm queer and there happen to be queer people in those "minorities".
mollywobbles867 20th-Aug-2012 09:30 pm (UTC)
If Santorum asked me that question or when I was in the audience, I'd say "Your Bible says it is."

Edited at 2012-08-20 09:31 pm (UTC)
stalkedbychibis 20th-Aug-2012 09:47 pm (UTC)
That sounds like a fabulous response.
colliedlight 20th-Aug-2012 09:54 pm (UTC)
This sounds really similar to asexuals trying to appropriate lgbt issues tbh.
psychesky 20th-Aug-2012 09:58 pm (UTC)
I read this article as a plea to queer monogamous people from queer poly people, that when the argument from anti-gay people is raised about gay marriage leading to polygamy, please don't immediately go 'no, that's not what we want, ewww' because they feel the 'ewww' reaction erases them. I, as a queer person in a monogamous relationship but open to polyamory under the right conditions, do agree that an 'ewww' reaction could make one feel upset or even marginalized within the queer movement. This article states it isn't about legality, but acceptance. Ok, well a lot of the LGBTQIA fight is about legality at this point. We aren't obligated to change the conversation. In the fight for equal marriage rights, poly isn't part of the conversation right now, and that's OK.

Also, yes, straight cis people in open relationships do have privilege over queer monogamous relationships. I wonder if things like couples having their children away taken has a lot to do with seeing the women in such relationships (because guys can have mistresses all over the place, that's manly) as being 'sluts' and therefore bad mothers.

I'm reading this through a haze of food poisoning on top of a bad period, so I'll admit I only gave it and the comments a once over.
colliedlight 20th-Aug-2012 10:00 pm (UTC)
Is the A for Asexual?
thecityofdis 20th-Aug-2012 10:14 pm (UTC)
HEY GUYS WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS-

oh hale no
crossfire 20th-Aug-2012 10:33 pm (UTC)
Screenshot of ontd-political with Mckayla Maroney looking unimpressed
moonyprof 20th-Aug-2012 10:18 pm (UTC)
Meh. They're separate issues. Marriage is not primarily about love or sexuality but about property and legal responsibilities. Opposite sex couples can and do marry for many reasons other than "love." That is why it is relatively easy and only sensible to apply laws meant for opposite sex couples to single sex couples.

It's much more complicated to work out the way property rights and legal responsibilities should work in a poly household. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be worked out. They should. It's just that it's a separate issue.

Plus it's playing Santorum's game, when he is a smarmy, sanctimonious little shit who is collapsing romance into sexuality into legality into theology because he can. That's the advantage reactionary troglodytes have. They don't have to think and they don't have to use nuance. What really needed to happen was for someone to say, "don't try that syllogistic bullshit on me. I know you went to Jesuit schools. Congratulations. Here is your prize. Now, let's talk about false premises and invalid arguments, shall we?"
poetic_pixie_13 20th-Aug-2012 10:36 pm (UTC)
So, what I'm getting is that the issues around polyamory largely stem from sexism and homophobia. The latter because it's an extension of homophobic views in general and the former because of assumed sexual/romantic binary gender roles.

Obviously being poly does not make one queer or means you face the same kind of discrimination that queer folks do. But love and family are so incredibly complex and unique to each person and there should be a recognition of that. Tbqh most queer and trans folks who I've heard talking about this issue haven't had any problems with non-monogamy or polyamory. (At least in theory. In practise there is the issue of how prevent the abuse that can result like it did with the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.) Most of the folks who will overtly try and distance themselves from these issues are the white cis queers who argue for that being queer means wanting all the trappings of the Heteronormative Dream™ (marriage house in the burbs, 2.5 kids, a dog, vacations to Disneyland) only with two (cis) moms or two (cis) dads. We're normal, just like you Middle-Class America!

This attempt to assimilate into heteronormative society instead of confronting it is obviously something that doesn't just apply to one single issue. The mainstream face of the queer rights movement might advocate for a TV sitcom monogamous family system, but I find that a lot of folks in the fight generally have the view of 'to each their own.'

The problem with this article is that it ever so slightly tries to equate being poly with being queer. But about the issue of poly folks working with the queer and trans community, well, so long as there's a very clear, very firm recognition that cis, straight poly people aren't queer or trans and shouldn't try to imply that they have to deal with the same shit as we do I'm cool. I'm all for using more inclusive language and ideas in our work and writing and teachings. Past that I see accepting the idea of relationships and families as not just having two partners or two parents as a natural part of trying to get rid of fucked up heteronormative, cissexist (misogynistic, racist, ableist, classist, &isms) views about love and family and parents and children and marriage and all that jazz.
rex_dart 20th-Aug-2012 10:48 pm (UTC)
I would say that this article is pretty overt (in a totally passive-aggressive way) about equating being poly with being queer, and that's the issue. Phrases like "sound familiar?" and "divide and conquer" are really problematic and serve as a big part of the crux of this whole article.

You're discussing very valid issues. The popular face of the queer movement is very similar to the face of many other movements: upper middle class, white, cis male, etc. (The issues with the popular face of atheism come to mind as very similar for me; personally I feel like I put up with a lot of the same bullshit in both arenas.) However, I do not see that these issues are what the article is addressing at all; if they were, this would be a totally different article and I don't think anyone would have a problem with it. This article, however, is directly telling queer people that they have to respond to homophobia in a way that revolves around a separate issue or they're throwing someone under the bus.
kawaiimamimi 20th-Aug-2012 10:41 pm (UTC)
Ugh, fuck all of this.

Either we fight for the rights of those who are marginalized or we don't.

I'm bisexual, poly, and in a relationship with three other people right now.

I also really, really fucking hate how that slippery slope bullshit argument is used. "So, if we let gay people get married then poly people can get married too?" How about instead of "no" we just say "Sure. Why the fuck not?"

This whole thing just infuriates me.
silver_sandals 20th-Aug-2012 11:01 pm (UTC)
thank youuuuu

people seem to want to ignore that part of the article

that a crowd of pro-gay marriage people booed poly marriage

that this means there is a problem

*headdesk*
colliedlight 20th-Aug-2012 11:20 pm (UTC)
Also, passive aggressive attempts at appropriation aside, Santorum seems like he's making a not so subtle jab at Mormons and Romney.
dragonhawker 20th-Aug-2012 11:40 pm (UTC)
I find this a pretty interesting topic, at a slight remove, because the General Assembly has been arguing back and forth about whether or not we (UUs) support polygamous relationships for years.

The arguments seem to basically boil down to:

"On one hand, it does say in our charter that we are an open and accepting community who recognizes love between human beings in all their forms. We have a duty to minister and give community support to people regardless of their orientations, and to nurture and water the flower of love in whatever soil."

"On the other hand... polygamy."

Edited at 2012-08-20 11:40 pm (UTC)
forest_venus 20th-Aug-2012 11:42 pm (UTC)
While I understand there are quite a few people that don't like how it seems like the article is trying to tack another cause onto their cause; because gee is it hard to get people to understand a cause, even just the stereotypical cisgender, affluent, white same-sex couple; I'm upset that more people aren't just pointing out the fact that hey, there are still some issues that need to be solved here. Like "Why we can't treat poly people just the same as everyone else", even if they may have some privilege already.

It's kind of like some of the commentators are telling the poly people to "get their own wagon".

For me, this article sort of reminded me, that hey, I should be more sensitive to the fact that polyamory is a way of loving, too, and I need to remember to stop saying "no" at that last question.

Because yeah, I was totally guilty of that "no" at that last question most times I was faced with it. Until I had to sit down and think about it, and how that would actually affect real people, and then I realized my answer is more like "Why not?" Why not let anybody/everybody get married? Seems like the only thing that would happen would be that people would be able to get married when they want to, and there's even a bonus! Lawyers would have some work to do, which would generate some revenue for them. Seems like a win-win situation for society, really.

I think when we don't think about things all the time, when things are not constantly brought up, we forget to, even when dealing directly with the issue, stop and think about it and how it actually affects others. It's good to bring light to an issue. It's always good to try to help others understand.

I just wish there was less of an issue on how to get "stage time" for causes. I agree that it doesn't seem quite fair to try to sort of piggyback on another issue, but how else are these nice people going to get their message out? It doesn't seem like a very well-understood issue, and it seems like it has a pretty strong knee-jerk reaction still.

Sorry if I ended up saying something insensitive, but if I did, please tell me, but try to explain it to me as if I was your sheltered, privileged friend who is intensely trying to learn not to be insensitive.
colliedlight 20th-Aug-2012 11:45 pm (UTC)
Wait. So somehow it's wrong to tell romantic minorities (lol forever at that) to get their own damned wagon instead of trying a me too with lgbtq activists?

Because you can be tolerant of someone's relationship without politicizing it.
stalkedbychibis 21st-Aug-2012 12:16 am (UTC)
I still have no idea where people are pulling this "stop trying to get in, straight people!" thing is coming from. No, being poly/kinky/whatever doesn't make you queer, being queer does, good job with the obvious there. Is it really *that* big of a leap in logic to think that, since this is talking about lgbtq people and polyamory, maybe it was meaning queer poly people and not straight ones?
rex_dart 21st-Aug-2012 12:24 am (UTC)
Did you miss the part where the author says "Couples in open relationships have lost their jobs and even custody of their children after people around them outed them as polyamorous. Sound familiar?" while linking the statement directly to a story that is specifically about a straight polyamorous trio that very specifically identifies as straight?
wrongheaded Missing the forest for the trees?21st-Aug-2012 12:38 am (UTC)
As I understand it, this article is suggesting greater collaboration between queer and poly communities. I believe this would be politically advantageous for both groups. I also believe that outside of the overlap among their members, poly, queer, asexual and kinky people also share a common value: having informed consent be the primary determinant of relationships (or lack thereof), not outdated social roles that assume everyone should be one way. So in addition to marginalization, these groups do actually share common ideological ground. This increases the likelihood that a coalition would lead to a successful outcome for all parties.

There will never be consensus and your allies will never be perfect, because hey, none of us are. The queer community is a prime example of this: it tends to skew towards the G no matter where it appears in the acronym, and the T doesn't get nearly enough love. But the first article I ever read about trans issues was on a white cis gay man's blog; I think that counts for something. This seems like an opportunity to form a similar, larger coalition that will have even more pull. It will similarly be flawed and have its own share of infighting. But it also presents an opportunity where we can negotiate an agreement that benefits everyone. Coalitions are how we get shit done, but the price we pay is not getting exactly what we want. Well, we weren't going to get that anyway! As always, the goal is to do the most good, not get mad when we can't do all the good.
yeats 21st-Aug-2012 01:03 am (UTC)
there is a lot going on here, and i'm not at my best tonight, but i'm trying to parse the post and the main comment threads. am i right that:

-being poly does not make you queer.
-some queer people are involved in polyamorous relationships.
-queer people in polyamorous relationships feel like their relationships have been used as straw men by anti-marriage equality bigots, and that monogamous queer people have participated, at least passively, by not calling out this kind of treatment when it occurs.

i can understand how queer people in poly relationships would feel hurt by the crowd's response in the video above. it never feels good to have a group of people with whom you identify fail to support you in other ways. but it seems to me that we need to be mindful that "queer people" and "poly people" are two parts of a Venn Diagram -- there's overlap, of course, but they're not the same. i can accept the idea monogamous queers should be more mindful of how our rhetoric affects our polyamorous queer kin, but then it's not even our rhetoric that's being taken to task here. it's the rhetoric of bigots and homophobes, which queer people are somehow supposed to answer for.

more generally, the LGBTQ movement needs to remember that the drumbeat of andrew sullivan-approved, hrc bumper sticker normalcy doesn't solve everyone's problems...but that's something that extends far beyond poly relationships.

Edited at 2012-08-21 01:04 am (UTC)
colliedlight 21st-Aug-2012 01:06 am (UTC)
I actually read Santorum's comment as a subtle jab at Romney. Considering he's still mad no one liked him for the nomination.
kyra_neko_rei 21st-Aug-2012 01:07 am (UTC)
Sidestepping the whole mess that everybody is fighting about, I do find it highly annoying that the homophobes expect us to agree with them regarding polyamory/group marriage as some sort of defense of our own marriage rights.

If Santorum has a problem with poly/group marriage, he can damn well come up with his own attacks on it and bring them out if/when it comes up as an actual issue.

They're expecting us to do their job for them, and saying it's our job to reassure them against all manner of accusations rather than their job to prove such accusations have any merit to them, and they only bring it up in the first place to make us look scarier than we are.

Oppression Olympics and social-justice-responsibility arguments aside, I don't care for the Right commanding a "Yes, Mr. Santorum, you're right about that" from us in the middle of an argument about whether we deserve what heterosexuals have already got. The next time somebody brings up "slippery slopes" or "group marriage" I hope they get invited to shut the fuck up until somebody actually makes it an issue. Because right now they're building straw-enemies and demanding our help to knock them down, and they've got no business doing that. It's a derail and it's disingenuous and it's an accusation of bad faith, and really they've got no business demanding we accept their position on whether water is wet, even, in order to fight for what we're actually fighting for.
luminescnece 21st-Aug-2012 02:10 am (UTC)
That's the part that gets me about the argument.

That people go automatically from "If two people get married then slippery slope, what about polyamoury and polygamy?!" and they keep expecting us to have a line beyond which where consenting adults in love shouldn't be allowed to be married and legally make a life together.

Shouldn't we be fighting that? Isn't that part of the battle? Do people actually think that we can address the fear and hate that lies behind homophobia without addressing the fear and hate that lies behind whatever it is we're calling people-who-are-ok-with-gay-relationships-but-disgusted-by-poly-relationships.

redstar826 21st-Aug-2012 01:16 am (UTC)
oh hay guys, I've been away for the past day, what did I miss....oh dear god *backs away from this post*

EDIT: on a more serious note, has the poly community done much to explain how legal recognition for poly relationships would actually work? Like, how would divorce proceedings work when you add more people to the mix, would their be any limits to the number of people who could be a part of one legally recognized poly relationship, etc? It seems that the more people you add, the more complicated certain things would become. I'm not saying that means that legal recognition shouldn't be granted, just that it is a different issue than recognizing same-sex marriages.

Edited at 2012-08-21 01:37 am (UTC)
kyra_neko_rei 21st-Aug-2012 03:06 am (UTC)
I would think that would be step one in the road toward requesting proactive* legal rights.

*As opposed to defensive legal rights, i.e. protection from things like losing custody of children over sex they never see or know about.

One of the difficult things is that there's a lot of difference in how the relationships are structured and run. Everything from who's married to whom, who has priority of next-of-kin or property rights, closed groups versus open groups or strings, how money is structured/divided/dealt with, divorcing one person vs divorcing all of them . . . all sorts of things. Tax codes. Custody of children, pets, property.

There might end up being inequity within the poly community, with some types of marriages allowed first---a vee structure of one person's bigamy or a closed interlaced group marriage of any size (with everyone married to everyone else) getting recognition before strings or groups of people married to some of each other . . .

One thing I'm sure of: if it happens, it's going to be made possible by technology---they're going to need computers to keep track of all the who's-married-to-whom details. (I have occasionally tried to map out the personal-fanon relationships of all the characters in my favorite fandom, them being all some degree of polyamorous to me; I've never been able to reproduce it on two-dimensional paper without getting a spaghetti junction of connecting lines.)

(I am such a geek for social analyses.)
luminescnece 21st-Aug-2012 02:00 am (UTC)
Relentless in fighting on the left: Confusing the masses since I'm-too-afraid-to-list-a-date.

Because we aren't all in this together. Fuck you for even insinuating that fighting for marriage rights for two people of the same gender is in ANY WAY similar to fighting for marriage rights for multiple people of either gender.

ALSO. It is in no way damaging for one side to act as if their fight is for human rights and the other people are disgusting perverts.
stalkedbychibis 21st-Aug-2012 04:31 am (UTC)
i wish lj had a 'like' function so i could like all your comments
ladypolitik 21st-Aug-2012 02:06 am (UTC)




zaure 21st-Aug-2012 02:46 am (UTC)
I laughed so hard through this entire scene. >.>
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