Poly-Baiting: Why We Need a More Inclusive LGBTQ Movement
by Vivienne Chen
Anti-LGBTQ campaigners have often used the issue of polyamory–or rather, a twisted media presentation of “polygamy,” which is distinct from ethical nonmonogamy and polyamory–as a slippery slope argument against LGBTQ equality, particularly when it comes to marriage.
The worse thing is? LGBTQ activists left and right take the bait.
Just take a minute and watch this short video. Trigger Warning: Rick Santorum. (As usual, santorum is full of shit.)
Notice the crowd’s reaction to his statements.
Santorum: Are we saying that everyone has the right to marry?
Crowd: Yes!
Santorum: So anyone can marry anybody else?
Crowd: Yes!
Santorum: So anybody can marry several people?
Crowd: *mutterings and incoherent babbles of ‘No!’*
Cut to Santorum getting booed off the stage.
The problem is Santorum is right. Did I just say that? (This is where I say things that not everyone in the LGBTQ community agrees with, so my post should not be used as a monolithic representation of LGBTQ activism.)
He’s right in the sense that once we realize it’s stupid to keep any two loving, consenting adults apart, we may start wondering whether it’s equally stupid to keep 3 or more loving, consenting adults apart. However, he’s totally wrong in assuming that the latter is necessarily a bad thing, and thus deserves to be booed at any opportunity.
But before we go any further, I’d like to clarify that this argument isn’t about marriage. Talking about marriage rights assumes that legal marriage recognition is the goal of most LGBTQ and most polyamorous/nonmonogamous (poly/NM) people, which is simply not true. It also opens the door for discussing the logistical barriers to institutionalizing poly relationships, which is a separate conversation. Instead, I am discussing here the general acceptance in society for the concept of a non-straight or non-monogamous partnership/relationship.
Just as Santorum fears, I believe entirely in the possibility of a “slippery slope” between queer and poly/NM relationship acceptance. However, I challenge the fundamental assumptions underlying the so-called “dangerousness” of this slope. After all, not too long ago in history, a relationship was about the marital union of one man and one man’s property colloquially known as a woman. Then, we as a society redefined relationships between men and women to be about love and commitment as equals, with or without marriage. Now, we are fighting for a genderless distinction.
But if LGBTQ activists continue to say that relationships are really about committing to the people we love regardless of gender, race, creed, etc., then maybe society should allow us to commit to the people (plural) we love. Note the assumption here: I believe it is, in fact, possible for some people to love more than one person.
The fact is that the struggles of the poly/NM community are not unfamiliar to the LGBTQ world. Couples in open relationships have lost their jobs and even custody of their children after people around them outed them as polyamorous. Sound familiar?
By distancing themselves and trying to divorce their struggle from the struggle of the poly/NM community, LGBTQ progressives end up throwing another sexual minority–indeed, a minority within their own minority–under the bus (A significant contingency of the poly/NM community is queer/bi and vice versa). Those who oppose progressive social movements have used this tactic countless times before–divide and conquer. I’d say something trite about how we are only as strong as we are united, but you get the point.
In order to build a more inclusive LGBTQ equality/acceptance movement, we as activists need to learn how to combat the poly-baiting that occurs on the opponent’s side. Regardless of your own personal opinions about the feasibility or acceptability of an open or non-monogamous relationship, we need to have the language to call out anti-equality bigots on their bullshit and false logical assumptions every time they make a “LGBTQ relationships = polyamory (= bestiality = total sexual depravity)” comment.
I offer you this script as only one example of how to respond to someone when they make these claims:
When you try to analogize LGBTQ relationships with multiple relationships, you falsely assume that the idea of polyamory will spark an outrage that will force us to alienate another group. You’re using polyamory as a straw man to avoid dealing with the fact that our Bill of Rights makes it impossible for you to ignore that LGBT relationships are as legitimate as heterosexual relationships.
(Edit: And if they even dare go into the “man on dog” bestiality comparison, please kindly refer them to this graphic, How to Explain Gay Rights to an Idiot.) If you aren’t squeamish about standing behind a poly-inclusive LGBT movement you can also add: “Your belief that LGBTQ equality will lead to acceptance of polyamory is right. It could. And it should.”
Coming soon to EqualWrites: How To Be An Ally to Polyamorous/Non-Monogamous People, and a guide on all the terms Poly/NM people use and what they mean!
source
(OP: I know this is an old article, but since ontd_p has... not done well with poly issues in the past, I thought this might be a good starting point. What do you think? Can LGBTQIA activists and poly activists work together on common issues, or will queer poly people continue to be thrown under the bus? also, tag suggestions very welcome!)
Edited to try and fix html. siiiigh
Polyamory does not make one queer any more than asexuality does so what exactly is this person asking for?
This article is really noncommital and wishy-washy and if this person wants to argue that polyamorous people are a marginalized class on par with queer people, they should fucking say it instead of dancing around the issue.
/waits for wank and gets popcorn
People just need to get with the fucking times. It's 2012. Why are people still getting all up in others' business about who they love and/or fuck? Unless you're involved, it ain't your business.
I wish the article was a bit more... solid in what it was talking about? It's trying to avoid saying outright that they feel that poly couples are marginalized, which... perhaps they are. They certainly get a lot of flack that monogamous couples don't. Just say it outright.
Edited at 2012-08-20 08:31 pm (UTC)
Sorry, are you suggesting here that queer people are "oppressing" poly people? Or that queer people are somehow oppressing only queer poly people?
Also why is it up to queer people to take up poly activism or whatever? Why is it always up to the marginalised group (see every "if you're a feminist why aren't you fighting for men's rights?" argument ever) to do the activism for everyone?
If someone is poly and GBLTQ then great they are part of the umbrella - as GBLTQ people. But straight, cis poly people invoking this:
"LGBTQ progressives end up throwing another sexual minority"
Can get out right now. I am so damn sick of straight, cis people appopriating the GBLTQ movement and beyond sick of straight, cis people desperate to include themselves under the GBLT umbrella.
I'm all in favour of polyamorous relationships and recognition, but I am not in favour of straight, cis people CONTINUALLY pulling this shit. I'm sick of it. Kinky people, Poly people, straight, cis Aesexuals, demisexuals, slashers asnd whole range of people overdosing on straight cis privilege who are DESPERATE to jump on the rainbow train.
And when straight, cis people come to me with their inevitably bullshit statements about my realtionship and the perversity of my love, amazingly enough, my first port of call isn't to respond "that's some really bigoted shit you're saying about me and sounds like more of dehumanising nonsense that leaves us beaten and bloody in the street - but hey, let me talk about this other issue instead". Because this is what this kind of sounds like.
When someone says "your relationship is going to lead to X, Y, Z" I respond with "that doesn't make sense"I'm all for saying "the slippery slope argument is bullshit, I don't care if polyamory is recognised and how dare you compare our relationships to paedophilia, bestiality and incest, you vile bigots" And no, I will be doing MORE than just referring them to a graphic so we can get back to talking about polyamory rather than responding to a homophobic attack
Edited at 2012-08-20 08:40 pm (UTC)
I think it's great to acknowledge that some LGBTQ people are poly, but I really don't think that if you're a straight and cisgendered you can appropriate our movement because you're also poly.
And not just that: there's also the "it's queer people's responsibility to defend us" rather than "it's the people saying the hurtful things' responsibility to stop being douchebags".
I'm tired of being expected to care about every flavor of sexual expression just because I'm queer and there happen to be queer people in those "minorities".
Edited at 2012-08-20 09:31 pm (UTC)
Also, yes, straight cis people in open relationships do have privilege over queer monogamous relationships. I wonder if things like couples having their children away taken has a lot to do with seeing the women in such relationships (because guys can have mistresses all over the place, that's manly) as being 'sluts' and therefore bad mothers.
I'm reading this through a haze of food poisoning on top of a bad period, so I'll admit I only gave it and the comments a once over.
oh hale no
It's much more complicated to work out the way property rights and legal responsibilities should work in a poly household. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be worked out. They should. It's just that it's a separate issue.
Plus it's playing Santorum's game, when he is a smarmy, sanctimonious little shit who is collapsing romance into sexuality into legality into theology because he can. That's the advantage reactionary troglodytes have. They don't have to think and they don't have to use nuance. What really needed to happen was for someone to say, "don't try that syllogistic bullshit on me. I know you went to Jesuit schools. Congratulations. Here is your prize. Now, let's talk about false premises and invalid arguments, shall we?"
Obviously being poly does not make one queer or means you face the same kind of discrimination that queer folks do. But love and family are so incredibly complex and unique to each person and there should be a recognition of that. Tbqh most queer and trans folks who I've heard talking about this issue haven't had any problems with non-monogamy or polyamory. (At least in theory. In practise there is the issue of how prevent the abuse that can result like it did with the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.) Most of the folks who will overtly try and distance themselves from these issues are the white cis queers who argue for that being queer means wanting all the trappings of the Heteronormative Dream™ (marriage house in the burbs, 2.5 kids, a dog, vacations to Disneyland) only with two (cis) moms or two (cis) dads. We're normal, just like you Middle-Class America!
This attempt to assimilate into heteronormative society instead of confronting it is obviously something that doesn't just apply to one single issue. The mainstream face of the queer rights movement might advocat
efor a TV sitcom monogamous family system, but I find that a lot of folks in the fight generally have the view of 'to each their own.'The problem with this article is that it ever so slightly tries to equate being poly with being queer. But about the issue of poly folks working with the queer and trans community, well, so long as there's a very clear, very firm recognition that cis, straight poly people aren't queer or trans and shouldn't try to imply that they have to deal with the same shit as we do I'm cool. I'm all for using more inclusive language and ideas in our work and writing and teachings. Past that I see accepting the idea of relationships and families as not just having two partners or two parents as a natural part of trying to get rid of fucked up heteronormative, cissexist (misogynistic, racist, ableist, classist, &isms) views about love and family and parents and children and marriage and all that jazz.
You're discussing very valid issues. The popular face of the queer movement is very similar to the face of many other movements: upper middle class, white, cis male, etc. (The issues with the popular face of atheism come to mind as very similar for me; personally I feel like I put up with a lot of the same bullshit in both arenas.) However, I do not see that these issues are what the article is addressing at all; if they were, this would be a totally different article and I don't think anyone would have a problem with it. This article, however, is directly telling queer people that they have to respond to homophobia in a way that revolves around a separate issue or they're throwing someone under the bus.
Either we fight for the rights of those who are marginalized or we don't.
I'm bisexual, poly, and in a relationship with three other people right now.
I also really, really fucking hate how that slippery slope bullshit argument is used. "So, if we let gay people get married then poly people can get married too?" How about instead of "no" we just say "Sure. Why the fuck not?"
This whole thing just infuriates me.
people seem to want to ignore that part of the article
that a crowd of pro-gay marriage people booed poly marriage
that this means there is a problem
*headdesk*
The arguments seem to basically boil down to:
"On one hand, it does say in our charter that we are an open and accepting community who recognizes love between human beings in all their forms. We have a duty to minister and give community support to people regardless of their orientations, and to nurture and water the flower of love in whatever soil."
"On the other hand... polygamy."
Edited at 2012-08-20 11:40 pm (UTC)
It's kind of like some of the commentators are telling the poly people to "get their own wagon".
For me, this article sort of reminded me, that hey, I should be more sensitive to the fact that polyamory is a way of loving, too, and I need to remember to stop saying "no" at that last question.
Because yeah, I was totally guilty of that "no" at that last question most times I was faced with it. Until I had to sit down and think about it, and how that would actually affect real people, and then I realized my answer is more like "Why not?" Why not let anybody/everybody get married? Seems like the only thing that would happen would be that people would be able to get married when they want to, and there's even a bonus! Lawyers would have some work to do, which would generate some revenue for them. Seems like a win-win situation for society, really.
I think when we don't think about things all the time, when things are not constantly brought up, we forget to, even when dealing directly with the issue, stop and think about it and how it actually affects others. It's good to bring light to an issue. It's always good to try to help others understand.
I just wish there was less of an issue on how to get "stage time" for causes. I agree that it doesn't seem quite fair to try to sort of piggyback on another issue, but how else are these nice people going to get their message out? It doesn't seem like a very well-understood issue, and it seems like it has a pretty strong knee-jerk reaction still.
Sorry if I ended up saying something insensitive, but if I did, please tell me, but try to explain it to me as if I was your sheltered, privileged friend who is intensely trying to learn not to be insensitive.
Because you can be tolerant of someone's relationship without politicizing it.
There will never be consensus and your allies will never be perfect, because hey, none of us are. The queer community is a prime example of this: it tends to skew towards the G no matter where it appears in the acronym, and the T doesn't get nearly enough love. But the first article I ever read about trans issues was on a white cis gay man's blog; I think that counts for something. This seems like an opportunity to form a similar, larger coalition that will have even more pull. It will similarly be flawed and have its own share of infighting. But it also presents an opportunity where we can negotiate an agreement that benefits everyone. Coalitions are how we get shit done, but the price we pay is not getting exactly what we want. Well, we weren't going to get that anyway! As always, the goal is to do the most good, not get mad when we can't do all the good.
-being poly does not make you queer.
-some queer people are involved in polyamorous relationships.
-queer people in polyamorous relationships feel like their relationships have been used as straw men by anti-marriage equality bigots, and that monogamous queer people have participated, at least passively, by not calling out this kind of treatment when it occurs.
i can understand how queer people in poly relationships would feel hurt by the crowd's response in the video above. it never feels good to have a group of people with whom you identify fail to support you in other ways. but it seems to me that we need to be mindful that "queer people" and "poly people" are two parts of a Venn Diagram -- there's overlap, of course, but they're not the same. i can accept the idea monogamous queers should be more mindful of how our rhetoric affects our polyamorous queer kin, but then it's not even our rhetoric that's being taken to task here. it's the rhetoric of bigots and homophobes, which queer people are somehow supposed to answer for.
more generally, the LGBTQ movement needs to remember that the drumbeat of andrew sullivan-approved, hrc bumper sticker normalcy doesn't solve everyone's problems...but that's something that extends far beyond poly relationships.
Edited at 2012-08-21 01:04 am (UTC)
If Santorum has a problem with poly/group marriage, he can damn well come up with his own attacks on it and bring them out if/when it comes up as an actual issue.
They're expecting us to do their job for them, and saying it's our job to reassure them against all manner of accusations rather than their job to prove such accusations have any merit to them, and they only bring it up in the first place to make us look scarier than we are.
Oppression Olympics and social-justice-responsibility arguments aside, I don't care for the Right commanding a "Yes, Mr. Santorum, you're right about that" from us in the middle of an argument about whether we deserve what heterosexuals have already got. The next time somebody brings up "slippery slopes" or "group marriage" I hope they get invited to shut the fuck up until somebody actually makes it an issue. Because right now they're building straw-enemies and demanding our help to knock them down, and they've got no business doing that. It's a derail and it's disingenuous and it's an accusation of bad faith, and really they've got no business demanding we accept their position on whether water is wet, even, in order to fight for what we're actually fighting for.
That people go automatically from "If two people get married then slippery slope, what about polyamoury and polygamy?!" and they keep expecting us to have a line beyond which where consenting adults in love shouldn't be allowed to be married and legally make a life together.
Shouldn't we be fighting that? Isn't that part of the battle? Do people actually think that we can address the fear and hate that lies behind homophobia without addressing the fear and hate that lies behind whatever it is we're calling people-who-are-ok-with-gay-relationships-b
EDIT: on a more serious note, has the poly community done much to explain how legal recognition for poly relationships would actually work? Like, how would divorce proceedings work when you add more people to the mix, would their be any limits to the number of people who could be a part of one legally recognized poly relationship, etc? It seems that the more people you add, the more complicated certain things would become. I'm not saying that means that legal recognition shouldn't be granted, just that it is a different issue than recognizing same-sex marriages.
Edited at 2012-08-21 01:37 am (UTC)
*As opposed to defensive legal rights, i.e. protection from things like losing custody of children over sex they never see or know about.
One of the difficult things is that there's a lot of difference in how the relationships are structured and run. Everything from who's married to whom, who has priority of next-of-kin or property rights, closed groups versus open groups or strings, how money is structured/divided/dealt with, divorcing one person vs divorcing all of them . . . all sorts of things. Tax codes. Custody of children, pets, property.
There might end up being inequity within the poly community, with some types of marriages allowed first---a vee structure of one person's bigamy or a closed interlaced group marriage of any size (with everyone married to everyone else) getting recognition before strings or groups of people married to some of each other . . .
One thing I'm sure of: if it happens, it's going to be made possible by technology---they're going to need computers to keep track of all the who's-married-to-whom details. (I have occasionally tried to map out the personal-fanon relationships of all the characters in my favorite fandom, them being all some degree of polyamorous to me; I've never been able to reproduce it on two-dimensional paper without getting a spaghetti junction of connecting lines.)
(I am such a geek for social analyses.)
Because we aren't all in this together. Fuck you for even insinuating that fighting for marriage rights for two people of the same gender is in ANY WAY similar to fighting for marriage rights for multiple people of either gender.
ALSO. It is in no way damaging for one side to act as if their fight is for human rights and the other people are disgusting perverts.