ONTD Political

Poly-Baiting: Why We Need a More Inclusive LGBTQ Movement

12:39 pm - 08/20/2012

Poly-Baiting: Why We Need a More Inclusive LGBTQ Movement

by Vivienne Chen

Anti-LGBTQ campaigners have often used the issue of polyamory–or rather, a twisted media presentation of “polygamy,” which is distinct from ethical nonmonogamy and polyamory–as a slippery slope argument against LGBTQ equality, particularly when it comes to marriage.

The worse thing is? LGBTQ activists left and right take the bait.

Just take a minute and watch this short video. Trigger Warning: Rick Santorum. (As usual, santorum is full of shit.)




Notice the crowd’s reaction to his statements.

Santorum: Are we saying that everyone has the right to marry?
Crowd: Yes!
Santorum: So anyone can marry anybody else?
Crowd: Yes!
Santorum: So anybody can marry several people?
Crowd: *mutterings and incoherent babbles of ‘No!’*

Cut to Santorum getting booed off the stage.


The problem is Santorum is right. Did I just say that? (This is where I say things that not everyone in the LGBTQ community agrees with, so my post should not be used as a monolithic representation of LGBTQ activism.)



He’s right in the sense that once we realize it’s stupid to keep any two loving, consenting adults apart, we may start wondering whether it’s equally stupid to keep 3 or more loving, consenting adults apart. However, he’s totally wrong in assuming that the latter is necessarily a bad thing, and thus deserves to be booed at any opportunity.

But before we go any further, I’d like to clarify that this argument isn’t about marriage. Talking about marriage rights assumes that legal marriage recognition is the goal of most LGBTQ and most polyamorous/nonmonogamous (poly/NM) people, which is simply not true. It also opens the door for discussing the logistical barriers to institutionalizing poly relationships, which is a separate conversation. Instead, I am discussing here the general acceptance in society for the concept of a non-straight or non-monogamous partnership/relationship.

Just as Santorum fears, I believe entirely in the possibility of a “slippery slope” between queer and poly/NM relationship acceptance. However, I challenge the fundamental assumptions underlying the so-called “dangerousness” of this slope. After all, not too long ago in history, a relationship was about the marital union of one man and one man’s property colloquially known as a woman. Then, we as a society redefined relationships between men and women to be about love and commitment as equals, with or without marriage. Now, we are fighting for a genderless distinction.

But if LGBTQ activists continue to say that relationships are really about committing to the people we love regardless of gender, race, creed, etc., then maybe society should allow us to commit to the people (plural) we love. Note the assumption here: I believe it is, in fact, possible for some people to love more than one person.

The fact is that the struggles of the poly/NM community are not unfamiliar to the LGBTQ world. Couples in open relationships have lost their jobs and even custody of their children after people around them outed them as polyamorous. Sound familiar?

By distancing themselves and trying to divorce their struggle from the struggle of the poly/NM community, LGBTQ progressives end up throwing another sexual minority–indeed, a minority within their own minority–under the bus (A significant contingency of the poly/NM community is queer/bi and vice versa). Those who oppose progressive social movements have used this tactic countless times before–divide and conquer. I’d say something trite about how we are only as strong as we are united, but you get the point.

In order to build a more inclusive LGBTQ equality/acceptance movement, we as activists need to learn how to combat the poly-baiting that occurs on the opponent’s side. Regardless of your own personal opinions about the feasibility or acceptability of an open or non-monogamous relationship, we need to have the language to call out anti-equality bigots on their bullshit and false logical assumptions every time they make a “LGBTQ relationships = polyamory (= bestiality = total sexual depravity)” comment.

I offer you this script as only one example of how to respond to someone when they make these claims:

When you try to analogize LGBTQ relationships with multiple relationships, you falsely assume that the idea of polyamory will spark an outrage that will force us to alienate another group. You’re using polyamory as a straw man to avoid dealing with the fact that our Bill of Rights makes it impossible for you to ignore that LGBT relationships are as legitimate as heterosexual relationships.

(Edit: And if they even dare go into the “man on dog” bestiality comparison, please kindly refer them to this graphic, How to Explain Gay Rights to an Idiot.) If you aren’t squeamish about standing behind a poly-inclusive LGBT movement you can also add: “Your belief that LGBTQ equality will lead to acceptance of polyamory is right. It could. And it should.”

Coming soon to EqualWrites: How To Be An Ally to Polyamorous/Non-Monogamous People, and a guide on all the terms Poly/NM people use and what they mean!




source

(OP: I know this is an old article, but since ontd_p has... not done well with poly issues in the past, I thought this might be a good starting point. What do you think? Can LGBTQIA activists and poly activists work together on common issues, or will queer poly people continue to be thrown under the bus? also, tag suggestions very welcome!)


Edited to try and fix html. siiiigh

zaure 20th-Aug-2012 09:27 pm (UTC)
So queer people only matter if we're 'normal'? That's nice. We're sure as hell all expected to care about your monogamous romantic relationships and cheer those on.
rex_dart 20th-Aug-2012 09:29 pm (UTC)
On what planet are you living where queer people are treated as normal?
sparkindarkness 20th-Aug-2012 09:33 pm (UTC)
See, this is one of the things I loathe about all these appropriations of GBLTQ people - they always turn round and try to completely dismiss the prejudice GBLTQ people face. Whether it's vanilla privilege or sexual privilege or now monogamy privilege - they all try to dismiss the prejudice and bigotry that GBLTQ people face
zaure 20th-Aug-2012 09:36 pm (UTC)
It's not a privilege/oppression dynamic, no.

BTW, I'm queer. At least, I am if, as a woman, being sexually attracted to women makes you queer. I know about homophobia, thanks.
sparkindarkness 20th-Aug-2012 09:39 pm (UTC)
It's being presented very much as that. Up thread there is a definite privilege/oppression dynamic being presented. Suggesting GBLTQ people are throwing straight, cis poly people under the bus is similarly doing so and the OP is presenting being poly as an oppression on par with homophobia.

Sadly, it's not an isolated case either
zaure 20th-Aug-2012 09:43 pm (UTC)
No, the 'throwing under the bus' metaphor is bad, I agree.

But the fact that the GLB community has more issues the further you go from 'happily coupled up cis able-bodied white men'? This is one of those things. Queers in unconventional relationships are expected to be quiet about them in our own community, and that is a problem.
sparkindarkness 20th-Aug-2012 09:52 pm (UTC)
And if it had said that rather than the whole "polyamory is a marginalisation" and major appropriation I don't think anyone would have disagreed

There have been post after post here about the annoying mono-focus of the GBLTQ rights movement and people have largely stood up and said "AMEN!" If the article was written the way you describe, I can't see it having any problem at all.

But there have also been post after post about asexuals, demisexuals, kinky people et al appopriating the language, work, movement and marginalisation of GBLTQ people and this post really flew right into the middle of that and invoked a lot of it.


I could err on the side of benefit of the doubt (which I hardly ever do) and say "this has a point but was an awfully written way to do so" which is awkward, but possible. But I'm leery because I checked the source, checked the author and an article she wrote about kinky as well and saw similar issues
silver_sandals 20th-Aug-2012 09:37 pm (UTC)
I AM QUEER.

I FACE QUEER OPPRESSION.

From this angle, it looks like you're the one trying to dismiss the prejudice I face.

I'm sorry that straight poly people have been shitty in the past, BUT I AM NOT ONE OF THEM.
sparkindarkness 20th-Aug-2012 09:41 pm (UTC)
I know you are and haven't denied it

But you've still said up there some things that present straight, cis poly people as having privilege over GBLTQ monogamous people. And yes I do think that belittles homophobia, including the examples you gave

And it is part of an ongoing pattern which we see a lot and I think is a mistake to ignore.
zaure 20th-Aug-2012 09:34 pm (UTC)
The person I was replying to said they didn't have to care about sexual expression of other queer people if they fall outside of romantic monogamy. Yeah, I find that problematic. So which queer sexual expressions DO other queers have to care about? Oh yeah, the ones that are most like the rest of society. Yay.
rex_dart 20th-Aug-2012 09:37 pm (UTC)
It is the job of queer people fighting for queer rights to say that it is okay to be queer. That includes queer poly people and queer asexual people and all queer people. There is no one being excluded here. How is this hard?
zaure 20th-Aug-2012 09:45 pm (UTC)
Because when queer poly people, queer asexual people, or other queer members of the community say 'uh, there's a problem...', the answer is 'NO THERE'S NOT'

The person I replied to specifically said they don't care about the sexual expressions of other queer people if they're in a minority. That's not okay. Or maybe it is to some people, I don't know.

casketscratcher 20th-Aug-2012 09:50 pm (UTC)
The person I replied to specifically said they don't care about the sexual expressions of other queer people if they're in a minority.

Except nowhere did they say that and this has been pointed out to you multiple times. Maybe you should re-read the comment you keep misinterpreting before you comment again.
rex_dart 20th-Aug-2012 09:51 pm (UTC)
You can think someone's a jerk for not caring about whatever, but you cannot expect all queer people to take up the banner of an unrelated cause because they are queer. That is not okay.
interrobamf 20th-Aug-2012 09:58 pm (UTC)
Why am I obligated to give a fuck about a specific thing you and straight people are not oppressed for? I don't get into relationships (I guess that makes ~aromatic~ or some dumb bullshit), but that doesn't make me any more oppressed or privileged. It's just a variation of sexual experience that people are constantly over-analyzing.

You're queer because you're attracted to people of the same sex. Being poly or "aromatic" doesn't make you worthy of any special attention within the community.
interrobamf 20th-Aug-2012 09:41 pm (UTC)
You are constructing an opposing argument that nobody has said.

Edited at 2012-08-20 09:42 pm (UTC)
interrobamf 20th-Aug-2012 09:30 pm (UTC)
lol

Are you having fun reaching?
silver_sandals 20th-Aug-2012 09:35 pm (UTC)
Ugh, thank you. This is actually getting pretty upsetting. *sigh*
zaure 20th-Aug-2012 09:42 pm (UTC)
I'm not poly myself, I'm happily single, which is considered just as strange especially for women.

But talking about the pressure (which stems from sexism)to 'find someone', the messages that romantic, monogamous love is what makes life worth living, being called a sociopath for wanting to remain single, the utter lack of representation of single women (and single queer women? Don't exist. The only way to show you're a queer woman is through a conventional romantic relationship), the fact that I spend so much time utterly convinced something is wrong with me for not conforming that I end up crying and have in the past felt suicidal because we're told life isn't worth living without that one type of love? Nope, you can't. No, it's not a separate oppression (it's rooted in sexism), but I would like to be accepted in the queer community as a queer person and not be told to basically shut up and keep sighing over wedding dresses and that no non-monogamous people are queer.
silver_sandals 20th-Aug-2012 10:18 pm (UTC)
I'm sorry bb. *hugs if you want them*

I think it's maybe time to admit that this was the wrong article to post and I was probably the wrong person to post it, as I have way too much anger and frustration to engage rationally about these issues.

But honestly? I do believe poly people are oppressed. I'm terrified to come out to people about it. I search desperately for depictions of the kinds of relationships I want in books and television and nothing, there is nothing. The idea that the kind of relationship I want isn't depraved and wrong is a radical, edgy notion. I can't have the kind of marriage I want, and the thought of children terrifies me because there's no way legally protect a poly family.

And then I come into queer circles and monogamous queer people tell me I'm appropriating. When all I want is language, an identity, and I don't know where to find it.

*siiiigh*
zaure 20th-Aug-2012 10:31 pm (UTC)
I understand. Do you also face the lovely choice of which part of yourself to hide when you talk to your communities? There are some places for single-by-choice/for-life women, but they almost all tend to be homophobic. So as a queer woman, that's uncomfortable. So I'm like, okay, I'll go talk to queer people. Then there's this lovely undercurrent (also found in mainstream society) that singleness in women is something to be fixed, that being a lesbian is all about being in love, our rights are about love, etc. Well, fine, but when I say my sexuality is about sex, I'm treated as a freak. There's still the judgement that life is about finding your one true love, and that a woman who wants sex and no relationships is a slut.

So I guess I relate, but from the other side. (Also I enjoy hanging out with poly people because I can still be close with people in poly relationships and their partners don't get all/as jealous. Monogamous people tend to pair off and then distance themselves from you.)
silver_sandals 20th-Aug-2012 10:56 pm (UTC)
Heh, oh man, every time I tell someone about my current relationship it's a fun game of "how much do i reveal this time." committed long-distance lesbian relationship between two poly people... almost nobody will accept all of it. Fun times!

And I have to say as a poly person I like hanging out with non-romantic people, as they're far less likely to think I owe them romance >___>
luminescnece 21st-Aug-2012 01:50 am (UTC)
Its hard to post to a place where you feel like people might support you because they generally support people with rights deficiencies and to get a pile of shit for it is no fun.

I identify as poly but am in a monogamous long term relationship with someone who is pretty close to polyphobic but he's been working on it for years. And thats where people totally disregarding poly as an identity / sexuality hit me. I'm not expressing any part of poly but feel in my heart and soul that the way I relate to all other people is informed by what makes me poly.

I will be poly if I die and am put in a pot with my partner having never touched another human being sexually.

The way that I express my polyamoury is in the way that I love. I have deep meaningful friendships with a few people and love them in my way. My partner has become ok with this as long as he doesn't have to fear 'losing me' and as long as the relationship isn't physical...

Like I said, he's more or less polyphobic and has worked on his issues with the very fact that I /could/ feel that way towards multiple people at once because he's just a very monogamous fella.

I pass. I pass in every way and so basically I don't explain how I actually identify to anyone. Because even if they understand poly they usually just accuse me of trying to call myself poly to get in on the fun or something.

Movement-straps hunneh. They worked hard for their terminology and they did it all by themselves. SHUT UP about Latin being there before hand. Other movements have to find their own or they just aren't committed to their freedoms.

Movement-straps. Brought to you by: Bootstraps (I worked hard for my money, it isn't my job to pay taxes and support people who refuse to work!) and Brainstraps (I worked hard for my education, it isn't my job to educate people who refuse to learn!)
silver_sandals 21st-Aug-2012 01:52 am (UTC)
movement-straps omg

you are just so great and yes so much yes with the poly-isn't-an-identity-crap just whyyyy
casketscratcher 20th-Aug-2012 09:42 pm (UTC)
No, queer people only matter if they're queer. If you're queer and poly, you're queer by proxy of being queer. It has nothing to do with how poly/kinky/whatever you are.

Do you think queer people not caring about your being poly somehow erases your queerness or something?
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