ONTD Political

A decisive conclusion is necessary

11:33 am - 11/19/2012
A decisive conclusion is necessary
There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip.

Anyone who thinks Hamas is going to beg for a cease-fire, that Operation Pillar of Defense will draw to a close and quiet will reign in the South because we hit targets in the Gaza Strip, needs to think again.

With the elimination of a murderous terrorist and the destruction of Hamas’s long-range missile stockpile, the operation was off to an auspicious start, but what now? This must not be allowed to end as did Operation Cast Lead: We bomb them, they fire missiles at us, and then a cease-fire, followed by “showers” – namely sporadic missile fire and isolated incidents along the fence. Life under such a rain of death is no life at all, and we cannot allow ourselves to become resigned to it.

A strong opening isn’t enough, you also have to know how to finish – and finish decisively. If it isn’t clear whether the ball crossed the goal-line or not, the goal isn’t decisive. The ball needs to hit the net, visible to all. What does a decisive victory sound like? A Tarzan-like cry that lets the entire jungle know in no uncertain terms just who won, and just who was defeated.

To accomplish this, you need to achieve what the other side can’t bear, can’t live with, and our initial bombing campaign isn’t it.

THE DESIRE to prevent harm to innocent civilians in Gaza will ultimately lead to harming the truly innocent: the residents of southern Israel. The residents of Gaza are not innocent, they elected Hamas. The Gazans aren’t hostages; they chose this freely, and must live with the consequences.

The Gaza Strip functions as a state – it has a government and conducts foreign relations, there are schools, medical facilities, there are armed forces and all the other trappings of statehood. We have no territorial conflict with “Gaza State,” and it is not under Israeli siege – it shares a border with Egypt. Despite this, it fires on our citizens without restraint.

Why do our citizens have to live with rocket fire from Gaza while we fight with our hands tied? Why are the citizens of Gaza immune? If the Syrians were to open fire on our towns, would we not attack Damascus? If the Cubans were to fire at Miami, wouldn’t Havana suffer the consequences? That’s what’s called “deterrence” – if you shoot at me, I’ll shoot at you. There is no justification for the State of Gaza being able to shoot at our towns with impunity. We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.

There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, nothing. Then they’d really call for a ceasefire.

Were this to happen, the images from Gaza might be unpleasant – but victory would be swift, and the lives of our soldiers and civilians spared.

IF THE government isn’t prepared to go all the way on this, it will mean reoccupying the entire Gaza Strip. Not a few neighborhoods in the suburbs, as with Cast Lead, but the entire Strip, like in Defensive Shield, so that rockets can no longer be fired.

There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip. Otherwise there will be no decisive victory. And we’re running out of time – we must achieve victory quickly. The Netanyahu government is on a short international leash. Soon the pressure will start – and a million civilians can’t live under fire for long. This needs to end quickly – with a bang, not a whimper.


The writer, whom I currently think is evil, is the son of former PM of Israel Ariel Sharon.

He certainly isn't alone in his thinking; according to a HuffPo article: Israel's Deputy Prime Minister Eli Yishai is reported by The Yeshiva World News to have said, "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages, destroying all the infrastructure including roads and water." Haaretz also reports that Yishai stated, "The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages."

So far, 73 Palestinians and 3 Israelis have died.
wingstar102 19th-Nov-2012 03:06 am (UTC)
Fuck this guy. Hamas is the duly elected government of Gaza, but nobody will deal with them because the Israeli government says they're terrorists because Hamas has the audacity to protest Israel breaking the treaty established boundaries. Palestinians have no voice to the international communities and this is the only way they have to call attention to the illegal blockades and encroachment and deaths they are enduring. Hate this shit and every government who backs any option except diplomacy is tacitly agreeing with the disproportionate response that Israel is making.

Edited at 2012-11-19 03:06 am (UTC)
metanoiame 19th-Nov-2012 03:39 am (UTC)
Well, the Israeli government calls Hamas terrorists because they kill Israeli civilians - much like the Israelis kill Palestinian civilians - not just because Hamas "has the audacity to protest." Obviously, Israel has a much wider international backing and uses much more disproportionate force in the war, but it doesn't do any good to whitewash the situation.
wingstar102 19th-Nov-2012 03:58 am (UTC)
True. But Hamas didn't just start killing Israelis for no reason.
dobermanndru 20th-Nov-2012 02:09 am (UTC)
No, they started killing them because they hate Jews. That's pretty much their reason.
wingstar102 20th-Nov-2012 02:57 am (UTC)
Here's what the people who have way more knowledge than us have to say about the subject:

Was Arab opposition to the arrival of Zionists based on inherent anti-Semitism or a real sense of danger to their community?

“The aim of the [Jewish National] Fund was ‘to redeem the land of Palestine as the inalienable possession of the Jewish people.’...As early as 1891, Zionist leader Ahad Ha’am wrote that the Arabs “understood very well what we were doing and what we were aiming at’...[Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, stated] ‘We shall try to spirit the penniless [Arab] population across the border by procuring employment for it in transit countries, while denying it employment in our own country... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly’...At various locations in northern Palestine Arab farmers refused to move from land the Fund purchased from absentee owners, and the Turkish authorities, at the Fund’s request, evicted them...The indigenous Jews of Palestine also reacted negatively to Zionism. They did not see the need for a Jewish state in Palestine and did not want to exacerbate relations with the Arabs.” John Quigley, “Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice.”

Here's the full article, in case you're curious: The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict

So... no it's not just because they hate Jews.
dobermanndru 20th-Nov-2012 03:13 am (UTC)
Go watch some Middle Eastern TV, some time. Look at the psychological diet the common people are fed, day in, day out. It's pretty much all kill-the-evil-Jews rhetoric.

Here are some examples, just given to children. As you can imagine, the stuff the adults get is far more hateful.


Hardly anyone, aside from the likes of MEMRI, bother to translate this stuff into English, which is why it doesn't make headlines in the Western world.
natgel 19th-Nov-2012 09:11 pm (UTC)
"Hamas is the duly elected government of Gaza, but nobody will deal with them because the Israeli government says they're terrorists because Hamas has the audacity to protest Israel breaking the treaty established boundaries"

Please tell me you're joking. Hamas is recognised as a terrorist orginisation not just by Israel, but by the US and the European Union, among other nations. And why? Because Hamas, while they are indeed the duly elected government of Gaza, (1) repeatedly targets civillians in their attacks (2) drew out their opposite party through bloody conflict entirely out of Gaza (3) abuse their own people. Don't trust my word for it, just google the independent commission for human rights based in Ramallah.

wingstar102 19th-Nov-2012 09:23 pm (UTC)
Went to Wikipedia and looked it up. The former government, the Palestinian National Authority, led by Arafat, caused most of the problems. Hamas, as bad as the shit they do is, hasn't done a fraction of the damage as Arafat. Two completely different political groups.
wingstar102 19th-Nov-2012 11:26 pm (UTC)
No system or political government is perfect, not even America, I know this. Bad shit happens. But all except one of these articles are from when the Palestinian National Party ruled, or right after. Since we don't have accurate information of what happened during 2009, I can't judge that. Don't forget, every country has civil rights abuses, even the "First World Nations".
dobermanndru 20th-Nov-2012 02:11 am (UTC)
Israel calls them terrorists because they are terrorists. When your 'protests' consist of repeated attempted genocide (or at least, trying to kill just about anyone you can, regardless of age or status), calling it 'resistance' is laughable.
wingstar102 20th-Nov-2012 03:01 am (UTC)
Well, of course they are going to resort to blowing shit up, not that I condone it. They have been illegally blockaded and suppressed!
dobermanndru 20th-Nov-2012 03:16 am (UTC)
And when they can prove they can act like civilised, responsible human beings, they can have the kind of freedoms which would otherwise allow them to commit a great deal more in the way of atrocities.

Maybe if they spent all those millions the UN hands over (without stipulations of how it should be used), on things like food, clean water, medicine and education, instead of a shitload of weapons to lash out at Israeli civilians with, they might be trusted more.
wingstar102 20th-Nov-2012 03:24 am (UTC)
Well, considering that the Israeli government is blockading them, I don't see how they can get any aid. But you're just trolling.
dobermanndru 20th-Nov-2012 03:38 am (UTC)
No, I'm trying to hold a civil conversation, but if you resort to saying someone's "trolling" just for doing that, you're not going to get very far in life.

You should check your facts, however. the Israeli government does help to send aid to the Palestineans. They just want to be sure of where it goes. To the people in need, rather than terrorists.

Otherwise, you just end up with a situation like North Korea, where the ordinary people starve for decades and the military are the only ones who receive the aid.
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